appealing place

[SadRach76]

Hi, just after some advice so a bit of background info my son has attended a primary school for the last 7 years , this school is not local to us and my eldest also attended who is now 17.
Reasons for choosing this particular school was the fact I was working close by when my eldest started reception and as he was settled I never moved him. When my youngest now 10 was due to start E was in yr 6 so made sense to have them together and its a good school.

So my eldest carried on to the local secondary school and left last July. When I had to apply for A to attend I obviously put this school as my first choice but slipped up and only put one choice as I really didn't think they would be an issue with him getting a place!
I was wrong he has been given a place within my local council at a school 6.9 miles away!! The school we requested is in fact 9.4 miles away but we have arrangements in place with friends and family available for childcare, and we have done the school runs for the last 13 years this way.
I haven't accepted or declined the school offered but if I'm being honest they is no chance he will be attending (its a horrific school with a bad history I have friends who have worked there and have been told avoid at all costs)
The main issue is yes we live a fair distance away and I totally understand we fit no criteria for this school but my son knows nothing else he attends school in Stokesley, plays football for a local team there and spends 99.9% of his time there basically he comes home to sleep!
I immediately contacted the council to ask about his position on the W/L and was told he was 4th out of 6 I thought fab bound to be some movement but since found out 5 children in his current class didn't bother to even apply for a place and have now bene added to the w/l meaning he is now 7th out of 8!
I have sent an appeal form in and am awaiting a hearing date. I totally understand how difficult appeals are and I am appealing on the grounds of social and how his mental health will suffer if he has to attend elsewhere. He is the only one out of 37 children in his class not getting a space.
I don't have any doctors notes as he has never suffered majorly with anxiety until now!
He does'nt go anywhere on is own so to expect a just 11 year old to have to get a bus on his own 6.9 miles away with no knowledge of the area or not knowing a soul terrifies me.

Just after some advice on what other evidence I could use to support my appeal, if anyone has been in a similar situation.

Thank you

You have already put in your appeal though? So any advice you are given now won’t be much help as the points you argue are supposed to go into the original appeal. When you have the hearing ideally you shouldn’t be bringing new ‘evidence’ unless it was something you could not obtain prior to your original appeal letter

Hi I was told that I could add to my appeal as long as it was in 10 days before the hearing??

Best people to answer @PanelChair @prh47bridge

Thanks so much

Yes, you can add to, or even completely change, your appeal.

Firstly, you should accept the place offered. The council is not under any obligation to come up with an alternative place so, if you don't accept it, you may not have a school for your son at all in September. Not accepting the place may damage your appeal as it may come across to the panel as attempting to blackmail them into giving your son the place you want.

I'm afraid the case you have outlined in your post is very weak. Social arguments rarely make for a successful appeal, and the panel is highly unlikely to accept that your son's mental health will suffer unless there is medical evidence (and, in all honesty, I doubt you will find a medical professional willing to say that, in their opinion, your child's mental health will suffer if he isn't admitted). You may still succeed if the school's case to refuse admittance is very weak, but that would be a long shot.

In order to strengthen your case, you need to identify things the appeal school offers that are missing from the allocated school - subjects, extracurricular activities, pastoral care, etc. If you can find any that are particularly relevant to your son, you can build your case around that. So, for example, you mention that your son plays football. If the appeal school has a football team but the allocated school doesn't, that would be a point you could bring up.

You would be wise to start seriously considering alternatives.

So the allocated school you are unhappy with. Start visiting and working out what is your second, third and fourth choice (and fifth, sixth, etc). Apply to these ASAP, they may have spaces.

Yikes.

As well,as appealing for this school, if I were you I would also get on the waiting lists and appeal to get a place at other schools such as ones close to where you live.

One appeal will not affect the other.

You need to start looking at what the school you want has that would benefit your son.

Social reasons aren't going to be enough as it's a time when they are all making new friends anyway.

You won't be able to include him not being able to travel on his own to the other school either as you are appealing for a school not against one. And they could argue it's your fault for not making sure he had a close school by not choosing one.

My sister appealed for a further away secondary as they offered mandarin at GCSE which my niece really wanted to do. It was the actual reason that she wanted to go there, it wasn't even a 'better' school.

At the appeal the panel went into detail about how my niece would get to the school even though her dad would be available every day to take her. They also talked about other schools that were closer to where they also offered Mandarin. (There was only one other which was a similar distance)

Given the circumstances, I can't understand why you didn't put down other choices.

I don't think you've got a strong case for an appeal. Maybe put your energy into encouraging your son as to the benefits of the school he's been allocated

If I were you I'd continue with your appeal but I wouldn't count on it resulting in a place for your son. If you are really set against your allocated place then I recommend you start looking at alternative schools and get his name on the waiting lists for these (ideally one would be your catchment school). You can also appeal for these schools.

As prh47bridge has said, your appeal (as you have outlined it here) sounds weak. Try to strengthen it by identifying other aspects of the preferred school which would particularly suit your child.

You need a plan B of some sort. If you’re determined that your child won’t attend the allocated school, ask the local education authority which (if any) of its schools currently has vacant places. You can also join waiting lists for other schools, although the LEA may require you to make a late application for them now.

Find any closer schools that you prefer and get his name down on their waiting lists.

7th on waitlist isn’t too bad in my area, even for sought after schools. It does depend however on size of school intake and other options parents applying to that school might have. As you’ve discovered however you can still go down waitlists if others in a similar position to you start looking round and put my names down on the school you are aiming at.

As others have suggested do the same for other schools as a plan B. As you now see of those 8 on the waitlist, some may be on other waitlists and will come off ‘your’ waitlist if they get a higher preference.

Surely he is not the only one of his class if others are on wl. It seems odd you did not apply to a more local school and presumably got allocated the nearest one wherever was left. There are never any guarantees where distance is a decisive criteria and you live further away. Is it normally undersubscribed? Accept the one you have been allocated and go on wl of any others you would be happy with.

My son was rejected from all four (one was a religious affiliated school so applied for separately) of our nearest state primary schools as they were kind of clustered together so we didn't live particularly close to any of them (SW London). But my late husband was a lawyer and went at it. He requested from the council statistics about how many families within X metres from our road that got their first choice place. He requested details about the furthest distance from each school that accepted kids lived. He argued that if student A lives closer to school 2 than student B lived to their closest school (1), then student B should get priority over student A, even if school 2 was the closest to student A, all else being equal (sorry this works better in a diagram).
Anyway at the hearing the poor council school rep was completely bamboozled by the argument - he had no answers or reasonable replies. However, appeal was denied, as though the panel admitted that they heard what he was saying and it was logical, the schools followed the correct criteria so the decision stood.
My husband expected this result, but wanted to make a point that children that live not quite close enough should not be disadvantaged as there were no reasonable alternatives. All the four we applied to were rated by Ofsted as excellent. The one we were offered was much further away and rated fair (I don't think that rating exists now, but I know it was one above 'inadequate').
Good luck to you but if the criteria for allocating places was followed you don't have much chance.

I'm guessing you are local to me.
If you want Stokesley, what have you been offered? LJ? Outwood -somewhere??There is a bit of a bulge year going on right now. Is there anywhere else you'd consider that isn't already full?

I'd accept the offered place. Rejecting it doesn't make a different offer more likely, and just leaves you open to needing to provide education yourself - either homeschooling or private. Then look at where else you might consider, whilst appealing for the school you want. I think your reasons are weak tho. Is there anything else Stokesley offers that the offered school doesn't other than familiarity?

Thanks for the reply, I totally understand I have a weak case and I posted on here to ask for advice if I could simply add anything extra to strengthen my case.

Thanks everyone, I posted on here to ask for advice on if I could add anything to strengthen my case, which I know is weak.
@EmmaGrundyForPM I didn't apply for any other schools as I said in my post I never had a doubt he wouldn't get in if I was honest and felt like your post was not helpful at all!!
@LIZS not sure why you think this I have no reason to lie, He is the only one out of 37 children as we are the only ones living out of catchment area. And my reasons for not applying to a local school is simply the fact he knows no one and the schools have not got a good reputation.
@CatOnTheChair yes we must be and as we live under R&C council we have been offered a school in Redcar.

Like I say I came on here to ask for advice not to actually be told my appeal is weak, I already knew that , I know I've messed up with only putting one school down but I cant turn back time!
So thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply but some of these comments are not what I needed to hear truth or not! Wish I'd not bothered asking now

LIZS is right though. There can’t be several children from his class on the waitlist and 100% of his class (except him) having a place.

Your strongest chance of getting a place at a school you want is to apply for different schools that he has a chance of getting a place at. Presumably every school within 6 miles was full on offer day, or he would have been offered one but they may not be full now. Find out which schools which are acceptable to you may have a place. He may end up first on the list at your closest school. There may be places in schools further away which you like but we’re not offered a place at because you were offered your closest school. Your appeal is extremely weak, but the last list is extremely short so he may end up getting a place at some point. In the meantime get him on other waitlists.

OP you have been given advice e.g from PanelChair about how to consider strengthening your case. It is a bit rude to come on and say you haven’t had any help. We can’t write your argument for you only you know your child and what interests or aspects there are at the school you are applying to that might not be at the school your child has been offered.

You know the school you are hoping for well as you’ve had another child go through it. Think about unique clubs or activities, specific subjects they the school offers that the other one doesn’t etc. Add those to your statement.

5 children from his class dint bother applying so Im assuming some of them have gone onto waiting list yes!

You'll need to find reasons this school you want offers him something the others can't. Nothing else is likely to work

Thanks I'll continue with my appeal as it is then and take it from there!
Thanks everyone

@SadRach76 I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I really think you should also get on the wait list for something preferable to the offered school as well.
Is everything in Redcar a no-go as far as you are concerned? Moving out of town:
Freebrough has just had an excellent ofstead - although it is very marmite.
I think Bydales will be full, but worth looking into.
Huntcliff got an awful inspection before Covid, but look beyond the headline outcome and see what you think. It's small and nurturing.
I think I'd go Huntcliff-bydales-freebrough as a preference.

For those offering advice on appeals: does it change anything that the OP is living in one council area, and appealing for somewhere in the neighboring council? Is there anything that should be done differently?

That was my point. You are assuming they did not apply rather than being in same situation as you.

No, living in one LEA area and appealing in another makes no difference. All appeals depend on the balance of prejudice, in other words whether the prejudice (detriment) to the child in not getting a place outweighs the prejudice to the school and the children already in it in having to accommodate another pupil.

I know some posters are not comfortable with being told that their arguments are weak but sometimes it has to be said. An appeal is not a magical way of unlocking a place at a school which is already at capacity; appeal panels work within rules and have to assess the balance of prejudice, as just mentioned.