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Secondary education

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Original poster

Grammar school appeal

54 replies

AlexiaR · 21/03/2023 12:35

I wonder if i could ask for some advice/inspiration on how to write my child's grammar school appeal? They missed out form originally passing the kent test, by a few points. I have tried to evidence everything, in terms of presenting objective facts, to demonstrate their ability and suitability, but I am at bit of a loss as to how to put accross, effectively, how going to the grammar school would be of greater benefit to their all round education, and their future prospects, and in turn how they personally they would be of benefit to the school, by them going there? My mind has just become muddled, at this point and I don't know how to put these points accross clearly and succinctly without coming accross as over the top. Could I anyone possible provide a few examples, please?

Many thanks in advance.

OP posts:
LetItGoToRuin · 21/03/2023 12:52

I recommend the appeals section of the 11 plus forum for this. There is some 'start here' essential reading on there which might answer your questions, but if not, you can post with some specifics.

11 Plus Appeals

11 PLUS APPEALS - 11 Plus Exams Forum

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=35

PatriciaHolm · 21/03/2023 13:02

Sorry, i'm not sure whether you mean your child didn't pass or did? It seems that they missed by a few points?

If they failed, then your appeal needs to address 2 points -

  • underqualification -you need to show that your child is of grammar ability. Evidence from school in terms of latest results, consistent reports, etc. Was there any solid reason you can evidence they might have underperformed? If they passed ignore this bit ;-)
  • oversubscription - you need to show that the detriment to the school of taking another pupil is outweighed by the detriment to the child of not attending.

Don't try to show how the school will benefit from the child -that's not relevant. Nor are wider comments about it's a better school, their prospects will be better - they are generic and apply to all children. Panels know parents want grammar schools because they are more academic. It's not relevant to a specific child's needs.

What you need to show is why this specific school meets their needs - are there languages, clubs, specialist provision that meet their specific needs? It all needs to be relevant to your child in particular.

Icantbelieveitsnot · 21/03/2023 14:17

Having gone through the process in Kent myself a few years ago... providing evidence of suitability for grammar is key- current test results (e.g mock SATS, CATS), reference from class teacher/head saying they think your child is suitable, the panel will want to know of any reasons why your child underperformed on the day.

Depending on your area/school applied for it will be a much easier task if the grammar has places and nearly impossible if it doesn't as you will be appealing alongside anyone who passed and didn't get in.

PlainSkyr · 21/03/2023 14:24

Your appeal would be requesting that your DC be offered a seat instead of another child who has passed the test. On the face of it this sounds unfair unless you have extremely good grounds.

I have appealed a particular grammar school where my DD passed the exam and yet missed out a seat as she was a few marks below the last scoring child who was given a seat. I provided information about her past results as well as the fact that her SEN adjustments had not been applied correctly in the exam - thereby proving that if they had been correctly applied she did have the aptitude to score a few more marks and would've made the cut.
Our appeal was unsuccessful as they were not convinced that she would've scored more. It's quite a difficult thing to convince the panel on.

This was a highly super selective over subscribed school. You have a better chance if yours is a selective and not oversubscribed school.

prh47bridge · 21/03/2023 22:20

Your appeal would be requesting that your DC be offered a seat instead of another child who has passed the test. On the face of it this sounds unfair unless you have extremely good grounds.

Wrong. A successful appeal does not, under any circumstances, result in a place being taken away from another child.

PanelChair · 21/03/2023 23:43

I’m not sure whether you mean that your child scored less than the mark considered a pass, or scored more than this but still not enough to be offered a place. Either way, you need to address the two points of underqualification and oversubscription, on which PatriciaHolm has given good advice.

PlainSkyr · 22/03/2023 06:40

prh47bridge · 21/03/2023 22:20

Your appeal would be requesting that your DC be offered a seat instead of another child who has passed the test. On the face of it this sounds unfair unless you have extremely good grounds.

Wrong. A successful appeal does not, under any circumstances, result in a place being taken away from another child.

Do you mean that schools add an extra place for all successful appeals? Sounds highly unlikely! Hmm

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 06:43

prh47bridge · 21/03/2023 22:20

Your appeal would be requesting that your DC be offered a seat instead of another child who has passed the test. On the face of it this sounds unfair unless you have extremely good grounds.

Wrong. A successful appeal does not, under any circumstances, result in a place being taken away from another child.

well, it does, because once that child is in the class, another child in the class has nowhere to sit, and has to squash up and share, every single lessons, every single day for the rest of their school time. It is so unfair.

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:45

PlainSkyr · 22/03/2023 06:40

Do you mean that schools add an extra place for all successful appeals? Sounds highly unlikely! Hmm

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That's exactly how appeals work.
A school has a PAN of say 150.
Appeals take the numbers admitted to say 154.
They won't take anyone off the actual waiting list until the number in the year naturally falls below PAN again.

ThrowawaySecondarySchool · 22/03/2023 06:45

It really does just result in more students in a class. Our Year 7 is full to bursting because the appeals just keep coming...

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:47

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 06:43

well, it does, because once that child is in the class, another child in the class has nowhere to sit, and has to squash up and share, every single lessons, every single day for the rest of their school time. It is so unfair.

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Squashing up isn't taking away a place from someone else though.

If they really were 'squashing up and sharing every single lesson' then the appeal probably wouldn't be accepted on space grounds. In reality classrooms are different sizes, sets are often different sizes, and room can be found.

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 06:50

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:47

Squashing up isn't taking away a place from someone else though.

If they really were 'squashing up and sharing every single lesson' then the appeal probably wouldn't be accepted on space grounds. In reality classrooms are different sizes, sets are often different sizes, and room can be found.

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in your dreams........

EmmaGrundyForPM · 22/03/2023 06:50

OP, did your child reach the "pass" mark? And is she really grammar school material?

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:54

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 06:50

in your dreams........

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Really?

Interested now. Why would an appeals panel allow an appeal if there was no room/desk in any classroom?
I can understand sharing 3 to an oven instead of 2, but every lesson there being no room?

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 06:57

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:54

Really?

Interested now. Why would an appeals panel allow an appeal if there was no room/desk in any classroom?
I can understand sharing 3 to an oven instead of 2, but every lesson there being no room?

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every time a class of 31 is in a classroom built for 30. Or less.

Every computer room, every cookery room, every science lab, every workshop.

Most normal classrooms.

Some child suffers from the extra body every lesson, and the teacher does too

Appeals are not a victimless crime

QuillBill · 22/03/2023 06:59

Just as an aside, my dd got into her primary on appeal mid year and it literally did mean everyone had to squash up. She had to share a peg and a drawer as the school was modern and purpose built.

It put the cat amongst the pigeons I can tell you and some of the parents wouldn't speak to me. 🙄

I'd say that was a fairly unusual circumstance though and obviously wouldn't happen in secondary. Or if it wasn't mid year.

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 07:04

QuillBill · 22/03/2023 06:59

Just as an aside, my dd got into her primary on appeal mid year and it literally did mean everyone had to squash up. She had to share a peg and a drawer as the school was modern and purpose built.

It put the cat amongst the pigeons I can tell you and some of the parents wouldn't speak to me. 🙄

I'd say that was a fairly unusual circumstance though and obviously wouldn't happen in secondary. Or if it wasn't mid year.

well, yes it does happen in secondary, just as much

QuillBill · 22/03/2023 07:06

well, yes it does happen in secondary, just as much

Oh, I didn't think any secondary schools would have pegs.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 22/03/2023 07:07

Where are you in Kent? What mark did your dc get? Did they achieve an overall pass mark, but fail one section?

I live in deepest East Kent, where some grammars are undersubscribed, giving you a much better chance of succeeding at a non-qual appeal.

In my experience, though, successful non-qual appeals tend to be those backed by Headteachers (and no, I’m not talking about the HT appeals which happen back in October). What does your child’s HT think?

Nimbostratus100 · 22/03/2023 07:09

QuillBill · 22/03/2023 07:06

well, yes it does happen in secondary, just as much

Oh, I didn't think any secondary schools would have pegs.

I am not talking about pegs

I am talking about lockers, chairs, tables, gas taps, ovens, computers, musical instruments, sinks, easels, basketball hoops, text books, etc etc etc

You have got enough for 1 between 2, for 30 children, but one group has to 1 between 3. Logistically a time consuming nightmare every single lesson.

and 10% of children disadvantages every single lesson

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 22/03/2023 07:17

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:54

Really?

Interested now. Why would an appeals panel allow an appeal if there was no room/desk in any classroom?
I can understand sharing 3 to an oven instead of 2, but every lesson there being no room?

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I think it's not really about appeals, as such but I'm sure you're aware schools are short of funding. If you Normally accept 180 students across 6 classes, and instead accept 192, then those 12 extra students bring with them let's say 60,000 - that maybe allows you to continue employing 2-3 TAs as a school. Or pays the increase on your energy bill. Etc.

So the school goes to the appeal and doesn't contest - says it will be fine to accommodate additional students. And then you end up with larger classes etc etc. I don't think anyone ever questions the school in this situation?

Most science labs I have taught in are designed for a maximum of 32 students at an absolute push. Yet sometimes we are now squashing in 33, 34 - doing practical work becomes unsafe because of the number of students.

I am not saying parents shouldn't appeal but I think schools who are strapped for cash have an incentive to say actually yes we can go above PAN even when it's not actually that easy to accommodate.

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 07:20

I hadn't thought of the benefits to the school money wise of going above PAN.

Prescottdanni123 · 22/03/2023 07:22

@PlainSkyr

A grammar school will not offer a place to a child and then snatch it away because someone who did not pass won an appeal. That is wrong. I'm saying that as someone who works in a Grammar school.

prh47bridge · 22/03/2023 07:31

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 06:54

Really?

Interested now. Why would an appeals panel allow an appeal if there was no room/desk in any classroom?
I can understand sharing 3 to an oven instead of 2, but every lesson there being no room?

Show quote history

If the school can show that it genuinely doesn't have room for an additional pupil, an appeal is unlikely to succeed. For most schools, that isn't the case. Most classrooms with a nominal capacity of 30 pupils can actually cope with several more.

TeenDivided · 22/03/2023 07:35

@prh47bridge Do appeals panels have a view when it comes to sharing equipment in eg science / food tech / IT? So if a school said not enough ovens / lab stations / IT?