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Original poster

Year 11 mocks - What’s the point of having grade boundaries?

38 replies

Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 18:37

Wondering if this is normal or common? DC is getting mocks results back and they are told which grade they have achieved and which grade they will get at the end of the term report, which for some subjects isn’t the same. So let’s say you needed 120 marks for a 9 if you get a few marks above this, again as an example 128 you will get an 8 instead (even though you achieved a 9). Apparently to get the 9 in this case the student would have needed to achieve a lot more marks above the 120 to be awarded the 9??? I gave an example with grade 8 and 9 but it can be any grade really! So my question is, what is the point of having grade boundaries if the teachers just give the grade they want anyway?

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 14/03/2023 18:40

DD and DS always got the mark they actually achieved in the mock, and the prediction for the actual thing, which aren't always the same as they are looking at different things - the overall grade is based on more papers usually, sometimes more topics, etc. Is that it?

RoseslnTheHospital · 14/03/2023 18:40

It's not clear what your issue is? Is it that in some subjects, a mark of 120 or above is a 9, but in other subjects a mark of 128 or above is needed for a 9?

redskylight · 14/03/2023 18:43

Grade boundaries vary depending on the cohort. So whatever the school is deciding are "grade boundaries" are being just something they've made up for illustrative purposes. For this reason, DC's school gave mock results as an actual score and an indicative grade.

Is that what you mean?

Whycanineverever · 14/03/2023 18:44

I would assume predicted grade is based on multiple things kit just that exam. My dd school use 8+ for example to indicate they are currently targeted an 8 but upper end. Eg if they have given them a topic list for mock that might count against the predicted grade as did they only get it because of the topic list.

Also it seems at my DD's school they are reluctant to put 9's in writing. She got one 9 and a couple of 8+ but in parents evening she was told she could get 9's in 5 subjects.

Original poster
Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 18:45

My issue is, if a student needs 120 marks to get a 9 and achieves 128, the student should be given the 9 and not an 8.

OP posts:
Takoneko · 14/03/2023 18:49

I think this is a communication issue. It sounds like they may be telling the kids something like “in 2022 the grade boundaries were 120 for a 9, but we think it’s possible grade boundaries will go up a bit this year so we are using 128 for a 9”. if that’s the case it sounds like the school is being sensible. Always better to think you’re on an 8 and find out that it’s a 9 than to think you’re on a 9 and then find out that the grade boundaries go up this year and what would have been a 9 last year is now an 8. In my department we are using the higher 2019 boundaries rather than the lower 2022 boundaries for our mocks. Mock grades really don’t matter, the important thing is that they are a learning experience.

redskylight · 14/03/2023 18:49

Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 18:45

My issue is, if a student needs 120 marks to get a 9 and achieves 128, the student should be given the 9 and not an 8.

Well yes, they should. What's the rationale for them getting an 8? Is there a second paper? Course work? Who has set the grade boundary?

theveg · 14/03/2023 18:50

Teachers don't know what the grade boundaries will be though, so it's guess work giving grades for mocks.

Original poster
Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 18:52

Apparently because they only got a few marks above the minimum for a 9 they get an 8 instead!

OP posts:
Notellinganyone · 14/03/2023 18:54

We base our grade boundaries on the previous year but once we’ve marked and moderated we then adjust the boundaries as we see fit. I also tend to mark pretty stringently for mocks as their purpose unis formative. The important thing is the feedback and clarity of what needs improvement.

theveg · 14/03/2023 18:55

But no one knows what the minimum for a 9 is!!

They are being cautious, it is only sensible.

If it was the other way round, then if the boundaries move up significantly in the summer kids won't do as well as predicted and loads of parents will Probably complain.

Just another example of teachers not being able to do right for doing wrong!

redskylight · 14/03/2023 18:56

You need to be really clear what's happening here.

If the grade boundary for a 9 is 120 then getting 128 means you get a 9.

If the mock is last year's paper and the grade boundary then was a 9, then it's right that the teachers adjust it upwards as last year's grade boundaries were set higher than they will be this year.

If the mock is some random paper and you're just assuming they should use 120 as that's been the grade boundary in a previous year, then that's a false assumption as grade boundaries vary year on year.

Deeno123 · 14/03/2023 18:56

It’s a Mock, not the real thing, what’s the big deal? Are they using the grade for one/two papers to help give an estimated overall grade?

Notellinganyone · 14/03/2023 18:56

Also we know that this year the grades will be lower overall as there needs to be correction for the covid/immediately post-covid inflation so being a little conservative is a wise move.

Manybeards · 14/03/2023 18:56

We use the grade boundaries for which ever past paper we’re using, so if they’re sitting 2019’s paper we use 2019’s boundaries

LolaSmiles · 14/03/2023 18:57

Grade boundaries change year to year and a grade 9 is the top X% of that year's cohort.

The danger of giving out grade 9s is that the grade boundaries can change substantially and it can easily mean some students stop working because they think they're going to get a 9.

What matters is that the student reads their feedback and areas to develop further, not if they got an 8 or a 9.

Same for other grades as well.

Manybeards · 14/03/2023 18:57

And the boundaries change every year

redskylight · 14/03/2023 18:59

DC's school always made a huge point of saying that they shouldn't focus on the grade but just getting as many marks as possible as you could never guarantee that getting a mark of x would mean a grade of y.

Sounds like good advice for your DC, OP?

Nimbostratus100 · 14/03/2023 19:01

Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 18:45

My issue is, if a student needs 120 marks to get a 9 and achieves 128, the student should be given the 9 and not an 8.

no, not if that is the ONLY piece of work they scored a 9 in, overall they could still be on 8, or lower

noblegiraffe · 14/03/2023 19:05

It was easier to get a grade 9 last year (or any grade) than it will be this year so they don't want kids to get complacent and think they have it in the bag when they still actually need to put some work in.

itsgettingweird · 14/03/2023 19:06

It's very hard to get a 9.

Therefore predicting an 8 protects both the students expectations and also is more realistic.

A student who is predicted an 8 but believes they can get a 9 will be motivated to study more.

SomersetBrie · 14/03/2023 19:06

Does DC need the mock results for something in particular - sixth form application or apprenticeship or something? If not, I would not be worrying about this as grade boundaries move and it could end up being the difference between and 8 and a 9 in the end.
I remember a friend of mine complaining that her son got a 9 in the mock and the teacher was still negative about it. Turned out, he had scraped a 9 (something like 80%) and was well capable of more (it was one of his A level choices, top grammar school). It would be have been better for them if he had been given an 8 so he knew it was worth putting in a bit more.

Pieceofpurplesky · 14/03/2023 19:08

Exam results, and therefore mocks, depend on more than one exam.

Original poster
Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 19:09

I gave grade 9 as an example only! My point is if the school gives the grade boundaries and says to achieve a 9 you need 120, the student achieves 128, always achieves similar results, surely the student should be given the 9, otherwise there’s no point telling the students the grade boundaries!

OP posts:
Nimbostratus100 · 14/03/2023 19:21

Newhere11 · 14/03/2023 19:09

I gave grade 9 as an example only! My point is if the school gives the grade boundaries and says to achieve a 9 you need 120, the student achieves 128, always achieves similar results, surely the student should be given the 9, otherwise there’s no point telling the students the grade boundaries!

well, that post doesn't make sense, as the grade boundaries will only be correct once, for one piece of work, so someone can't "always achieve similar results", because they will only do that piece of work once

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