Feeder school but out of catchment

[bellswithwhistles]

Anyone been through this?

We live in an area where 3 councils all border. As such although we are at primary with the same postcode, it's under a different borough. It's a feeder school for an excellent high school which is 9 miles away from where we live. Local comp is 3 miles away and not great.

Feeder school children do take priority if it's oversubscribed - over distance. So moving to be close to the school wouldn't make a difference in that case.

However, this year a friend was rejected because she lived out of area and was given a school in the same borough instead. Honestly believe if she'd been living in the area and at the feeder school her child would have got in.

Do we move now to be in the same borough or do we hang fire and hope that the school has spaces?

Also just to add a problem into the mix, child has SEN so already been warned local council won't want to be 'paying' for a child living in their area to go to a school in another borough - is this true?

What does the admissions policy for the school say?

Does friends child have an EHCP, as that is the only reason SEN would come into it, apart from that admissions/funding is the same based on criteria. If EHCP, LAs out of area, prefer to prioritise their own students as they are using their resources within the local area and saves on travel costs.

If you can afford it, I'd move.

We have just lost out on a high school place for our son because we live too far away. Any year since 2013 he'd have got in from where we lived. We are gutted.

Move to give him the best chance.

Feeder school children do take priority if it's oversubscribed - over distance. So moving to be close to the school wouldn't make a difference in that case.

Are you saying that all the feeder school children don't get in? If so how do they decide which ones get a place of it's not on distance?

Check the admissions criteria carefully. You mention that being at a feeder school takes priority over distance, so (as you say) moving closer to the school won’t put you in a higher admissions category.

I’m not sure what you mean when you say your friend’s child didn’t get a place because they live out of area. Some schools will have catchment or priority admissions areas, but there’s long-established case law that LEAs can’t refuse school places to children living outside the LEA. It’s quite common for children who live near an LEA boundary to go to school in a neighbouring LEA. Distance is often the tie-breaker when an admissions category is over-subscribed, so it might be that your friend’s child missed out not because of which LEA they live in but because they live farther than the last child admitted.

Check the admissions criteria on the school’s website. Stop second guessing and listening to other people - look at what the school actively use to rank the places.

I'm my area feeder school in catchment take precedence over just living in catchment.. but living in catchment takes precedence over being at feeder school and living out of catchment.

You need to look properly at the admissions policy.

Friends dc attends a feeder school, high school admissions only prioritises children who have attended there since y3 - presumably to stop anyone moving for a space.

Another school has a policy where living in priority admissions area and attending schools x,y or z is highest priority, then just attending school x, y or z, then living in priority area, then everyone else.
Is yours like that?

Also check local birth rates. Round here 2012 and 2013 were absolute bumper years, so this year’s Y6 and Y5 classes are big. Our local comp was oversubscribed for the first time in living memory. However after 2013 the birth rate falls of a cliff, so the admissions picture for a current y4 will be different from a y5.

So do the criteria look something like:

1. EHCP, Looked after etc
2. In catchment
3. official feeder
4. out of catchment

You are currently in group 3 and you are wondering about moving house to get into 2?

OR

1. EHCP, Looked after etc 2a) In catchment at feeder 2b) other in catchment
2. out catchment at official feeder
3. out of catchment

You are in group 3 and looking to be in 2a

This sounds remarkably like high school near us.

The criteria are 1) in care 2) siblings 3) health grounds 4) feeder primary 5) distance.

It's an extremely popular and oversubscribed school. In recent years there's been a change to the local primaries with a number becoming an academy with closer official links to the high school. Two of these schools are in a different borough. This has been done in part to protect the historical link between these schools despite the council boundary. But this also means that they will get priority over the other feeder primaries which has further complicated matters. The result is some kids who live closer to the school and are in the right borough but aren't in the right feeder primary are losing out to kids who live out of borough and much further away because they are in the feeder primary which gets priority. If it's a competition between two kids at the same primary, priority is given to the child who lives closer.

I do know that the school have not taken anyone who isn't in a feeder primary in a few years and it's become apparent that there are too many kids from the feeder primaries applying. Traditionally more had applied to nearby grammars and got spaces but as competition for the grammars has increased, fewer kids have gone and this change in pattern is having an impact. The area is expensive to live in so less families can afford to live locally and are moving further away - often after getting one child into the high school. I know of kids who got into some of the feeder primaries as a result of them being undersubscribed due to this who live about 11 miles away. The pressure on the grammars is really impacting indirectly.

It's nuts. You really have to understand the system and apply to the right primary or you can get caught out. I know people who took their kids private at primary due to problems and had intended to try and get them into the high school because they live within a mile of it, only to get a rude awakening.

So yes I can well believe you could be at a feeder, but fail to get a space due to being out of borough or because other children live closer because pressure on spaces is so high. If you live out of area you are more at risk of not getting a space and that's why some schools are trying to find ways around the system to ensure feeder primaries out of area get priority at the expense of closer primaries.

Understand the criteria and check the distance on the last admission - this info is usually publicly available.

Depends on the area. Whilst the birth rate may have crashed in 2013 this isn't the only story in areas with better schools. These areas have been targeted by Hong Kong Chinese moving to the UK. This, plus affluent areas having more people take Ukrainians on the Homes for Ukraine scheme is distorting patterns too (many Ukrainian kids have got places in local schools as there were spaces or they qualified for bulge spaces due to being classified as 'at risk' - and many have now moved further out to less well off areas as their hosting arrangements ended). It's been easier for these groups to move / get placements with younger children rather than older.

COVID also drove a big move of people from London to areas further out or to the North.

I know the South Manchester commuter belt from Warrington, East Cheshire, Trafford, Manchester and Stockport is being particularly affected by these changing patterns of demographics which have been very sudden and seen large spikes because of the speed of the changes which mean that the lower birth rate won't make as much difference as you might think.

Ok so it's

1. Looked after children
2. Siblings of existing pupils
3. Children resident within catchment and at feeder school
4. Past pupil siblings
5. Children not resident within the borough but at the feeder schools
6. Children of staff who work there
7. Pupils living closest to the school.

So we are at no 5 on the oversubscribed list - but above those children who live next to the high school but don't go to a feeder school.

Does friends child have an EHCP, as that is the only reason SEN would come into it, apart from that admissions/funding is the same based on criteria. If EHCP, LAs out of area, prefer to prioritise their own students as they are using their resources within the local area and saves on travel costs

It's my child (sorry realise I wasn't clear) who has the SEN. Applying for an ECHP as we speak where we live. Child is Year 4 currently. The part that's not clear is whether the council where we live would fund their ECHP even though they'd be then wanting to attend a high school out of area (I might add they'd be doing that anyway even at primary obviously as we are out of area!)

School we feed into is amazing with SEN children.

There is no decent high school for SEN children near where we live in our borough. He'd be fed to the lions - literally.

Ah. I had the impression you were already in category 3, so moving closer might move you up the admissions priority if you move from category 5 to category 3.

An ECHP will change the picture again because, if you have an ECHP which names the school, your child will be placed there independently of the admissions round. It’s not impossible to get an ECHP naming a school in a different LEA, but as with any other ECHP you will need to show that this is the most appropriate provision for your child.

If there is more than one feeder school, it's probably worth checking how they split the allocations between them. Our secondaries group feeders into A: nearest, X % B: mid distance Y % and C: furthest city Z %. Then on distance in A/B/C groups.,

If you live in a village in group C which is the outer circle moving nearer the school increases your chances. If you are in group A you probably can't risk moving.

Past pupil siblings! never seen that one mentioned on MN before.

The admissions code doesn’t prohibit giving priority to siblings of past pupils, but this is the first time I’ve heard of a school actually doing it.

If you get an EHCP the LA can only refuse to name the school if the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

That applies even if the school is out of area.

So i can get them to add to his ECHP that he has to feed into the feeder school? His sibling (neurotypical) is the school year above however so need to get them in first :S

If you call your local admissions office they will tell you for the school for the last few years what number they went up to on their oversubscription ranks. So if every year they admit students ranking 6 or 7 then you are likely relatively safe.

With an EHCP you get to state your preferred school and unless the school is wholly independent the LA must name the school unless the LA can prove one of the reasons in my pp.

If an EHCP is issued now you would state your preferred primary school, but there will be a phase transfer review in the autumn term of Y6 (or sometimes at the very end of the summer term of Y5) and as part of that process you can name your preferred secondary school.

The oversubscription criteria look rather odd. Is there mention of siblings living in catchment? Also siblings of past pupils rare. Have you checked the results for recent years, how many children were admitted under each category. Have you also looked at any planned large housing developments near the school, if large they could mean those admitted fall back from category 5 or 7 to 3 as numbers living in borough at feeder schools increase. Remember to keep checking the oversubscription criteria each year, new feeder schools could be added or they could prioritise other groups of pupils.

I've just copied the oversubscription criteria in order. Siblings are just mentioned as siblings (so that's in or out of catchment) Siblings of past pupils is definitely on there!

How do I check? Do I ring the council in question? Or does the school tell me?

Just ring your local admissions office.

Admissions for the council I live in or admissions for the council of the feeder school? Guessing the later...Both local!