Secondary School Appeal - disadvantaged children

[Kiwikind]

Hi, I have been reading lots of advice on successfully appealing a secondary school decision and that you should not compare schools. Is there any circumstances whereby you can use the performance tables of the schools to show it would have a detrimental effect on your child's education? The school offered has fantastic value added scores for disadvantaged children, but the opposite is the case for the school that has been offered. Is it acceptable to appeal on these grounds, using the performance tables to show this.
Thanks in advance for any advice...

That won't work sorry

No, don’t go anywhere performance tables or Ofsted ratings etc.

First of all, because they carry no weight at appeal. As far as the admission and appeals codes are concerned, all schools are capable of providing an education. Secondly, because you’re appealing for your preferred school, not against the allocated school. Thirdly, because the appeal has to be about very specific reasons why your child needs a place at your preferred school and will be disadvantaged if they don’t get one, not about your generalised concerns about things that may or may not materialise and may or may not affect your child. Fourthly, because (frankly) you want the panel to be on your side so that, if the arguments for and against admitting your child are finely balanced, they will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you start saying (in effect) that the school isn’t good enough for your child (in a way that isn’t linked to their needs or specific provision at the school), you may antagonise the panel. For all you know, their children attend that school.

Focus instead on your child’s needs and how the preferred school will meet them by providing things that the other school won’t.

@Kiwikind also bear in mind that, from the school"s perspective, admitting additional students above their PAN will dilute/stretch the resources they can provide to the existing disadvantaged students in their care. That will be their argument. How do your individual child's needs outweigh the disbenefit to other students at the school?

Thank you all for your replies. The school also run a club just for the specific instrument he is having lessons in. The school offered does not have a club, although does offer lessons for the instrument. But the club involves lots of students learning to play and perform together and this is something he would love to do. I have read that things like this can brought to the appeal, but would this alone be a strong enough reason for a successful appeal?
Thanks again

It’s impossible to predict, because so much depends on the strength (or weakness) of the school’s case for not admitting. I suspect, though, that one extra-curricular club might not be enough to clinch the appeal for you, so look for other aspects of the school that would benefit your child.

PanelChair, thank you. The other aspect is that this school has great results for disadvantaged children and good P8 results for those coming in with high prior attainment results at key stage 2. The offered school has bad results for children coming in with high prior attainment results at key stage 2 results. And he is predicted higher grades.
Would including the fact that the school is also very good in their support for disadvantaged children without comparing to the other school be ok? Or would that be just as taboo as comparing the schools?
Another thought is to say why we chose that school is because it is the best school in the area to help students achieve their full potential irrespective of their circumstances and background?
Thank you again

You can't go into an appeal saying that your child should be at XYZ school because the results are better. Or that it's the best school on the area. Surely you must be able to see the difference between saying

XYZ School offers an orchestra group which and David has played the bassoon since he was nine and has performed at.....and had achieved such and such.

And

XYZ is the best school in the area to help students achieve their full potential irrespective of their circumstances and background and it would be best for David to go to the best school in the area where they have the best results.

I do think you should appeal though. You just need to form a better argument than the one you have.

I appealed for a primary place and you really have to understand the process in order to write the statement. The appeal itself it rigorous and you have to be able to talk about and support everything you say.

Kiwikind, unfortunately there are likely to be many more disadvantaged students than there are places at the target school. If all the disadvantaged children in the area were to launch a similar appeal, and win, how do you think the school would cope with the numbers? Schools set a PAN for a reason - they obviously want as many children as possible, because that helps their budget, but too many will put a strain on resources and impact learning. You need to make the case that your child's needs are so great that they outweigh the school's professional judgement on how many students they can cater for. Being disadvantaged is unlikely to be unique enough to win the panel over (and especially if they know the school you're trying to avoid struggles to compete academically because it is undersubscribed, with greater financial pressures).

Yes I see the difference. The problem is I only have the music club to go on, and I’m not sure this would be enough. He’s only started playing this instrument in September, in this academic year, so I can’t say he’s been playing since he was young or performed before. Just that he’s loves playing, and to be able to join such a group to specifically to play and focus on this one instrument would be great opportunity for him to develop his skills. It doesn’t feel that this is a strong enough case. Is this enough to go ahead with an appeal?
Thank you

Well, you wouldn't win an appeal at my school, but if your target school presents their case weakly you might get lucky. Have a look at their stats to see how many appeals they get and how many are won - that will help you understand how experienced their presenting officer is likely to be.

... But if you really don't think you have a chance, please do consider withdrawing, to save the presenting officer a lot of work and time. Schools don't have the spare resources to be spending lots of time defending against weak appeals. I am the presenting officer for my school, and a volunteer (school governor). I generally spend a lot more time preparing the 'defence' than the appellant appears to have spent on their case, and I have to take time off work to attend the virtual appeal. Most appeals we get are on very weak grounds, and not a single appeal has succeeded in the several years I've been doing it, or the several years my predecessor was doing it before that.

Thank you. I do fully understand how stretched resources are so wouldn’t want to waste time. But he has also recently started in a weekend group playing this instrument, and they are planned to perform this summer in three local fairs. Is this something that could support his appeal for the club, would this show although he is new to playing this instrument, he’s passionate about playing it and would benefit from being involved in a group at school? Thanks again

No, it would show that his new hobby is well catered for outside of school.

If your child does go to the originally offered school, I would suggest you talk to the music teacher about setting up a club there. Many schools adapt their club offering to cater for the interests of their students.

Thanks again. The group is only temporary until the fairs in the summer. So his hobby would not be catered for when he moves up to year 7. Is this likely to make any difference in an appeal? Thank you

As I tried to explain in my first post here, arguing that your child is a high achiever and you want them to go a high achieving school won’t carry weight at an appeal. It’s too vague and too general; many parents might argue this but it doesn’t say anything about what the child needs. As I also said before, I can’t predict what the panel might make of the argument about the instrument, but the fact that it’s a new-found enthusiasm and there clearly are opportunities outside school might weigh against you.

Even so, don’t abandon the idea of appealing if that’s what you want to do, to feel you’ve done everything possible. No appeal is a waste of time in that sense. Look at the school very carefully to identify everything (apart from performance statistics etc) that would benefit your child. I’ve never heard before of a school governor acting as presenting officer, but all the panel members will be volunteers. We give up the time because we want to help parents use the right of appeal given to them in legislation.

Thank you PanelChair for your advice. I will take a look at everything at the school that would benefit him. Hopefully there is enough for an appeal.
Thank you

I would always recommend appealing if you want to. It is a one way bet - if you lose you are in the same position as if you hadn't appealed, if you win your child gets a place at your preferred school. Sometimes something emerges in the hearing that shows a mistake has been made. And sometimes the case to refuse entry is so weak that almost any appeal will win.