Choosing local comp over private or grammar

[Jujujuly]

Has anyone done this?

I’m getting way ahead of myself here because DC is only 5 (reception in local state primary in zone 3 London). Obviously I have no idea how they will develop in future but based on their current ability and DH’s and my background it wouldn’t be a surprise if they do well academically.

I have a well paid job atm but DH doesn’t. I’m planning to stick it out for another c4 years to max out pension and make serious dent in the mortgage and then really scale it back. By that time DC will be year 5/6. If I continued in this job we’d be able to fund private school or move house to a grammar/high performing state catchment.

I’m inclined to think that DC will probably do well in the local comp and would benefit more from having me around a lot more, but I’m not sure. Education seems like a total rat race in London and conversations have already started about secondaries. Has anyone been in a position to send their child to a high performing school but decided not to?

You have loads of time and choice. My niece is a teacher in your area, she has 2 primary aged children. Whether grammar will suit your ds as he's so young you don't yet know. You need to check out how good the local comp is, check all options.

We don't have grammar here in Surrey, but all the local schools are good, and the Catholic one that ds2 still goes to is superb. Ds1 now at Uni, I found if the school is good, bright children from invested families thrive. Anywhere, at any good school. Most of ds1's school peers had literally everything going for them, exceptionally bright, nice, good looking, top set maths, loads of friends, balanced individuals, drive a car, big family house, sporty, off to uni - either Oxbridge or Durham or Bath/any good uni. The schools pastoral care, helping them with PS for Uni applications. You get all that if the school is good, your'll get bright kids, with everything going for them, parents who care, for your dc to mix with their peers. It breeds an even better school. Do your dc will thrive.

You have tonnes of time to check out your options.

Yes, we could have comfortably sent dd to a private school but chose to go down the state comprehensive route instead. She is in Year 13 now. We have absolutely zero regrets and I actually think she has benefitted immensely from being in a more socioeconomically diverse environment.

She has excelled academically (straight 9s at GCSE, predicted straight A*s at A-level, going on to do medicine at uni etc). She has bags of poise and confidence - ready to try anything, talk to anyone, great social skills, unfazed by public speaking etc. She has had tremendous enjoyment from her extracurricular activities (mainly performing arts) both in school and outside of school. She has done a lot of the outside of school performances alongside kids from the private schools, and she clearly hasn't been at any disadvantage. And she has gained insights into the lives and challenges of many of her peers that I have no doubt will help her immensely in her chosen career.

So for us, it has been great. However, I think that's partly because dd has always been very bright anyway, as well as naturally very confident and self-motivated. This has enabled her to really thrive in the state school, but some kids might need a bit more help, a bit more nurturing or a bit more pushing. The best thing you can do is know your own child and choose the school on the basis of what they need as individuals. The sector isn't important if you are lucky enough to be able to afford to choose.

There are no grammars near us, thankfully. I really don't agree with them but it would have been hard to avoid in a grammar area.

That’s fantastic to hear @MrsBennetsPoorNerves and I’m sure you are absolutely right about the benefits it will bring for her future career.

No @cantkeepawayforever I'm not. I am in a county with 3 grammar schools. I suppose they are super selective in that respect.

I gave up a career and retrained when the kids were little. If I'd have stayed on in my first career we could have sent our 2 kids to private school. They both ended up in state schools. There are no grammars in our area.

It's worked out fine for us.

The comps my kids went to both had higher than average progress 8. Both kids were streamed in the top sets and they found the other kids in them worked hard and didn't really cause too much trouble. The eldest one has gone to a great uni and the younger one will probably end up applying for Oxbridge. The both had/have friends who were motivated to do well in exams and go to uni which I think helps.

The downside is that there have been an increased number of supply teachers over the years. Parts of their school buildings look like they are falling apart. Class numbers have crept up. Letters are sent home asking for additional financial contributions to buy equipment etc because there is just not enough funding. As a parent, I've invested many hours and a lot of money in extra curriculum activities. Pastoral care in one school in particular was awful as we came out of the pandemic.

If I had to do it again I would probably chose the same route but I question myself about this as I've seen a decade of the underfunding of state schools and the impacts it's had overall. I can only assume however that by the time your kids get to high schools things will have improved.

You are very fortunate to potentially have the choice of private/grammar/comp. I would not be even thinking about making a decision right now. Schools can change a lot in a few years with a change of Head/management. Wait and see how your child develops and go and visit the schools when you are getting close to decision time. Try to ignore the title private/comp etc and think about which school will be the best fit for your particular child at that time. It's impossible to generalise about any sector, because there is such huge variation - there are some great schools and some terrible ones in all sectors. You need to make the decision based on the specific schools and child involved. We turned down a place at a top super-selective grammar for our eldest, (against the advice of just about everyone we knew) because it just didn't feel like the right fit for him. He ended up very happy elsewhere and made it to his first choice uni. Job done!

Sorry, Phos, I think I misunderstood your point.

You were saying, I think, that, for an able child, sending them to a nearly true comprehensive (with a full range of ability including the most able, but with a small proportion going to grammar schools) was something that you would ‘struggle to justify’, on the basis of in-class behaviour within all comprehensives?

I think that grammar supporters are also somewhat more confident than the data justifies that the 11+ is a good test of ability. We know anyway that it is highly coachable - so a middle ability well-prepared child will gain access to the grammars while their much more able uncoached peers will be in the alternative schools. You know this yourself - you are paying for a prep school to give your child this edge, regardless of their ‘genuine’ ability in comparison to their peers.

The 11+ is also not particularly reproducible - while the group who ‘pass’ will exclude those of very low ability, when it comes down to individual children, the exact children who pass and fail would be different if another 11+ test was taken the following day or the following week. Further, depending on design, it may discriminate against children with spiky profiles eg genuinely exceptional at one subject but less able in another.

That means that, while the grammar school will tend not to admit children who will be in the very lowest sets of a comprehensive, it does not follow that all the children in a grammar school would be in the top set of a comprehensive in, say, Y8, nor that all the children in the top set of the comprehensive are - if measured over time with a range of tests - less able than their peers in the grammar school.

I would, however, completely agree about the school funding point. Unless school
funding and teacher retention improves dramatically in the interim, you may find yourself in a position where only by paying private fees can you have any confidence in building safety, adequate equipment and reasonably consistent staffing (and even then it may be flaky within some subjects, particularly Maths, Physics and Computer Science).

I can only assume however that by the time your kids get to high schools things will have improved

I don't see how it will improve tbh which would be my main concern & certainly in my part of London where I grew up the catchments for the excellent comp secondaries have got much tighter & the house prices around are much higher which does create less socioeconomic mix.

One tip I found quite useful was in the year or so before choosing a secondary school to keep an eye on how many vacancies they had/how much recruitment they were doing, what subjects etc so you could see which schools were really struggling and which were finding it easier to recruit/retain staff.

We have just chosen to send our year 6 DC to their local state secondary school, rather than a selective private school. DC got their first choice state school and we've gone with that. It's hard to describe but when we saw the state school offer it just felt right, maybe if we hadn't got our first choice we possibly would have gone private. The state school is local and DC will be able to walk with friends, the school is more socially diverse, there are loads of extra curricular actvities and it gets great results, which seeing as it is truly comprehensive must mean the teaching is of a very high standard.

I agree that London feels quite stressful when it comes to secondary schools, partly because it seems like different tribes of parents make massively different choices depending on where they live in London. In my borough, most children go to the local state school, some go private and very, very few go to the one grammar they are in catchment for (because its so hard to get into). I feel like everyone around me expects the state schools to be good and the schools do deliver (for all aspirations, abilities and needs). That said post national offer day there are clearly some schools which are very popular and it is very hard for DCs who don't get their first, second, or even third choices. There are definiltey anxious parents waiting on waiting lists now.

I would say the best thing for you to do is go and visit all the schools. Go and see the state and private schools and see how you feel about them. Speak to the teachers, find out what is on the syllabus in a subject you feel passionate about so you can compare how they talk about it with other schools you visit. I visited loads of schools last september adnthe years before, all state and private and it really helped me understand what I wanted for our DC.

Guessing your username reveals the borough in question? 😉 That’s the way it should be I think.

I hate that it all feels so strategic already. We bought our house here because it was the most space we could afford at the time. It’s been a lovely place to have babies and toddlers and now DC is settled at a lovely primary. Music to my ears though to hear that most people are suggesting we stay out for now!

Yes I think so - it’s great that he went with most of his best friends from primary and that all his friends live so close by. Though none of them are in his class which is a shame. I guess just adding general cultural capital - museums, foreign holidays, cultural experiences. Will look at tutoring if it’s necessary.