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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Secondary Admissions

34 replies

Doodl · 01/03/2023 23:06

I’m after some advice please. We got our DD’s place through today and while she’s happy with the school offered, I’m not. She has her friends going there which I understand is important and to be considered but the school itself is not great. It has recently been ofsted inspected with an outcome of requires improvement with heavy emphasis on bullying and attendance issues. Do I keep my DD happy or apply to waiting lists? If we are successful with a waiting list place our current allocation is removed so we can’t make our mind up then, we have to decide now if we wish to be placed on the waiting list.

On a side note, when we visited the schools, this particular school (the non favourite!) showed a PowerPoint stating “fact” if you don’t put us as first choice you won’t get a space. This influenced our preference order as I didn’t want my DD being sent further or to another not so good school. Although I didn’t put it as first place, we risked and put it as our second option. We missed out on our first choice but have since found out if we’d put our third choice in second place we would have gotten it. I can’t help but feel really gutted. Are there any grounds to appeal on this basis?

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 01/03/2023 23:12

“If we are successful with a waiting list place our current allocation is removed so we can’t make our mind up then”

I might be wrong, but I don’t think it works like that. You can be put on the waiting list and then, if they get to you, they should ask and give you a couple of days at least to accept. Lots of people go on the waiting list for their first choice then in the meantime start getting uniform and going to transition days and decide to stick with what they have.

Original poster
Doodl · 01/03/2023 23:14

This is the info from the email:- If a vacancy occurs, you will be notified in writing, and we will assume you are accepting the place offered and your child's original allocation will automatically be withdrawn as children can only have one school place at one time.

because it’s a phase transfer it works slightly differently to an in year waiting list. I think!

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 01/03/2023 23:16

Wow! That’s pretty tough :-(

prh47bridge · 01/03/2023 23:44

I'm afraid the school giving misleading information is not grounds for a successful appeal.

LockInAtTheFeathers · 02/03/2023 04:52

Are you in Hertfordshire? I've heard of them automatically removing places when one comes up on a waiting list, though most LAs offer the new place and give you a few days to decide between them, which seems like much better practice. It shouldn't matter that it's a phase transfer.

It's very annoying that the open days are giving incorrect information, but there was no risk in losing your place at this school as long as it was on your form somewhere. The schools do not know where you have listed them, and you will be offered your highest preference that is able to offer you a place, so you should always list in your genuine order of preference (while including somewhere a school that you can be fair sure of gaining a place at if possible). However, if you would have got into your third preference if you had listed it higher, you must have met the admissions criteria and so you would presumably be very high up on a waiting list, so I think making sure you are on the waiting list for this school would be your best chance of admission. Only you can decide which would be best for you and your DD, but if you preferred the other school initially and this one has bullying mentioned I would personally be having a chat with her and trying to get her on board, and getting on the waiting list.

Original poster
Doodl · 02/03/2023 07:54

Thank you, as I expected but good to know for sure

OP posts:
Original poster
Doodl · 02/03/2023 07:59

@LockInAtTheFeathers Thank you for taking the time to reply. Completely agree on every point. Just disappointed I didn’t order the schools differently.

I guess different LA’s handle differently then? I presumed that would be standard across the board. It’s whether I tell DD we are on the waiting list or say nothing until we potentially are offered.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 02/03/2023 08:03

If DD thinks she’s going to school 2, I don’t think you can waitlist/reapply for school 3 (and others) without telling her.

SheilaFentiman · 02/03/2023 08:10

Also, would you have to opt out of the waitlist for School 1, otherwise the same might happen there?

LockInAtTheFeathers · 02/03/2023 08:11

SheilaFentiman · 02/03/2023 08:03

If DD thinks she’s going to school 2, I don’t think you can waitlist/reapply for school 3 (and others) without telling her.

I agree- I don't think it will be the best start to the potential new school for her to not be mentally prepared for the possibility of the school allocation changing. She needs to at least be aware that you are on the waiting list and the school could change IMO.

OP, yes, it is unusual as far as I'm aware for LAs to handle waiting lists as yours does (and bad practice IMO), but I have heard of it before. I'd be interested to hear from an admissions expert whether it is contravening the admissions code to take away a place from someone because a waiting list place elsewhere came up, without allowing them to make the decision?

Original poster
Doodl · 02/03/2023 08:28

@SheilaFentiman no as far as I’m aware we are allowed to go on the waiting list for both schools, preference 1 & 3. Our third preference I pushed to the bottom as I had looked back historically over the last 6 years worth of data and they’ve never offered a place as far out as us, until this year typically! One of those things I suppose!

OP posts:
Original poster
Doodl · 02/03/2023 08:32

@LockInAtTheFeathers yes I see your point. Perhaps we will sit down with her over the weekend and explain from our point of view. She has been subject to physical bullying at her current school, all of which are going to the school were not keen on! Hence all my concerns really!

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 02/03/2023 08:40

Doodl · 02/03/2023 08:28

@SheilaFentiman no as far as I’m aware we are allowed to go on the waiting list for both schools, preference 1 & 3. Our third preference I pushed to the bottom as I had looked back historically over the last 6 years worth of data and they’ve never offered a place as far out as us, until this year typically! One of those things I suppose!

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.

I meant: if you don’t do a “new” application and don’t withdraw from waitlists, would you automatically go onto the school 1 waitlist, meaning you would be switched immediately to that if a place came up there for you. .

MNHQ
LilyMumsnet · 02/03/2023 09:53

We're just moving this over to 30 days only for the OP. Flowers

arista · 03/03/2023 23:33

I am in the same dilemma and I am interested to find out how it is in Kent. If you are on the waiting list and a place comes up whether you still have an option of keeping your first offer if you choose to or do you automatically lose it. If anyone is aware for Kent I will really appreciate.Thanks

SheilaFentiman · 03/03/2023 23:40

@arista which council? This is Medway

www.medway.gov.uk/info/200137/schools_and_learning/1061/applying_for_a_secondary_school_place/5

arista · 03/03/2023 23:53

Dartford Council

Nonameoclue · 04/03/2023 08:18

Buckinghamshire definitely take away the original place so I'm sure other places do as well. The reasoning is that if you stay on the waiting list for a higher preference it is because you actually want the place. All waiting place offers are made on the same day rather than piecemeal so there is a cascade.

MarchingFrogs · 04/03/2023 08:37

@arista it really should be as simple as, check the secondary school admissions page on the KCC website, but I've just had a quick search and can't find that information. Possibly you get to it eventually if you go through the online form for applying for waiting lists?

SheilaFentiman · 04/03/2023 08:41

MarchingFrogs · 04/03/2023 08:37

@arista it really should be as simple as, check the secondary school admissions page on the KCC website, but I've just had a quick search and can't find that information. Possibly you get to it eventually if you go through the online form for applying for waiting lists?

@MarchingFrogs i had the same!

@arista did you get a letter, does that say anything? Otherwise maybe start a thread with Kent waiting list policy in the title and you might catch the eye if one who knows.

LockInAtTheFeathers · 04/03/2023 08:42

Nonameoclue · 04/03/2023 08:18

Buckinghamshire definitely take away the original place so I'm sure other places do as well. The reasoning is that if you stay on the waiting list for a higher preference it is because you actually want the place. All waiting place offers are made on the same day rather than piecemeal so there is a cascade.

I believe the majority actually give you a few days to make the decision between your original offer and a waiting list place if one comes up and this is considered better practice, though
I know that some do automatically take the original place away.

I'm not sure what they do in Kent, though this page: www.kent.gov.uk/education-and-children/schools/school-places/after-you-get-your-school-offer says that if you get a place on a waiting list you must let your original school know that you no longer want the place, so that suggests that they don't take it away.

arista · 04/03/2023 08:50

Thank you Marching frog. I did also but could not see it on KCC website. I have sent them an email hopefully Monday I will have a reply. Our first choice is closer to home and my eldest child goes there so would be easier for us. On the other hand the second choice offered seem more suitable to our child but is further and will need to take a bus. So unsure what is right. They wanted to be together but also understand it has not happened thus us thinking of the waiting list.

prh47bridge · 04/03/2023 09:58

My view is that automatically taking the place away is a breach of the Admissions Code. The Code sets out three reasons an offer can be withdrawn. Getting a place at a higher preference via the waiting list is not one of them. If this happens and you decided not to take the waiting list place, you should be able to get the original offer reinstated via appeal. This is yet another case of councils doing what is administratively convenient rather than following the rules.

Having said that, you don't want to be in the position of having to appeal to get an offer reinstated so, if your council is one of those that does this, you should only stay on waiting lists if you want the place.

Original poster
Doodl · 04/03/2023 11:23

I wasn’t aware of the place offered being withdrawn until I emailed to put DD’s name down on the waiting list. We received an automated response stating that the original place will be removed if a place can be offered. My husband and I have spoken in depth and spoke to our DD who is actually very open to the idea, I didn’t think she would be so we are happy to stay on the waiting list.
We’re based in East Sussex if that helps!

OP posts:
arista · 06/03/2023 13:55

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies.

Below is the reply I have received today regarding the email I sent Saturday.

Our advice would be for you to accept the offer you currently hold as this will not have any bearing on whether you are made another offer from the waiting list. All waiting list applications along with any late applications will be considered for our second round of offers on 25th April on which you will receive an email from us telling you whether we are able to make you another offer or not. If we make you another offer it is completely up to you whether you choose to accept this or stick with the original offer you received.

That is helpful and provides us with a bit more time to think it through.

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