Lower 6th A'level initial exam results terrible for DS, is this normal?

[shelbys]

Hey some advice from from those who have been through A'levels. My son did really well in his GCSEs 8,9 in his chosen A'levels (Maths, Physics, Geography). Its not going well esp in Maths and Physics and I am totally shocked at his current predictions (D's and E)... He says its much much harder, but his college will predict his grades in May for uni applications - and I am just floored - is it really that much harder? He's working well or so it would seem... Help?

Yes, Maths and Sciences in particular ARE much harder, and A levels in general are very different to GCSEs. We were warned by the school many times when he was in years 10 and 11 that there was a massive "step up" to A levels and to choose very carefully.

There's also the different teaching styles. For GCSE's pupils are usually "spoon fed" everything, but once in the sixth form, they're expected to be more proactive, do lots of personal reading/research, and of course, there's not as much teaching time, with lots of "free" periods where they should be doing their own work (but lots either go home early or just hang out with friends). Teachers generally have a more "hands off" approach in the sixth form, which they justify as preparing the pupils for University, where they'll have even less "teaching" and will mostly be doing their own "self teaching".

I suspect the OPs son may only be doing the "bare minimum", i.e. attending lessons, doing the set homework, etc., and not realising they also need to be doing lots of their own extra work, or maybe not doing enough to properly understand what's being taught, and then getting further behind when topics move on and they're lost.

Agree largely with previous poster but just to add that we have been told by school to manage expectations based on gcse results so 8/9 pupils are more likely to ultimately get Astar A and 6/7 pupils B C ish, - can't remember what the correlations were exactly. We saw this pretty much for eldest DC and friends and seeing it in current DCs too. So although yes it's a step up it is a step up that tends to be managed by most in the end around their typical academic capability. Chat with teachers, look at his work and see what's going on.

As a pp said, it’s quite normal for a Y12 who did well in GCSE with minimal effort to think that similar tactics will work at A-level, and they don’t.

Countless students get a huge shock in their January exams, then realise that the school wasn’t kidding when they said that they needed to be doing an hour of independent work for every hour in the classroom. Merely doing homework isn’t enough. Maths needs way more practice, for example.

Your DC can pull it back but it will take a lot of effort. They now have to properly learn the work they didn’t properly learn up till now which involves going over and redoing everything they missed on the exam, while at the same time learning the new material to a greater depth than they were doing before.

There are lots of online resources that can help with this.

I wouldn't say it's normal but my dd ( struggling with depression/ anxiety and an eating disorder was tracking at a U for law a few years ago and managed to pass with 3 A's !
Anything is possible

Hi thanks all, really helpful as I think he is probably following the mantra of how he worked for GCSE's i.e. puts in the time but not the extra time....Will chat to his teachers and see how we can help to get him back on track. I just feel a bit terrified that its March and I don't see how we can get him up by May.

We're just moving this thread over to the secondary education topic.

What have his teachers said? If the answer is not much, or you haven’t asked, request an appointment asap and meet the teacher with your DS to discuss and make a specific plan, with resources, to study for the next few months.

There is a chart that shows how the step up to Maths A level is big. I will see if I cN locate it.

thanks @SeasonFinale !

we have a parents evening in 2 weeks but I have req a chat with his personal tutor to try and unpick it all

well done to your DD :)

I was a pretty bright child who coasted through school & did well in my GCSEs without having to try. A-Levels were a huge shock. Having said that in one of the Biology modules that I got an E in having done zero revision I then retook it & got 96/ 97% which was one of the highest marks for that paper in the country apparently. I revised the week before & got very lucky that my revision topics & what I remembered from classes came up. Moral of the story revise!!! 😆

@LilyMumsnet just to say, it should really be in the Further Education topic as OPs son is in Year 12.

Yes, noblegiraffe posted it here -

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4007205-How-maths-GCSE-result-predicts-A-level-maths-result-important-for-grade-6-7?latest=0

I saved the original thread as a reminder to myself about how much harder A level maths is.

copying the chart here (hope that's okay?)

So a GCSE 8 in maths doesn't easily translate to A or higher in A level maths. Nearly 40% of students with a 8 in GCSE get C or less at A level :-(

I have been told by a friend's son who breezed through GCSE (9 in maths) and doing A level maths now that he's having to spend substantially more time just to keep up with the class. He didn't have this situation in GCSE.

Most schools adjust their predicted grades for UCAS applications if students show improvement. Presumably your DS will have end of year exams as well which the school will use to adjust their predictions. Even early entry uni applications don't have to be in until October - I doubt they will just use the first set of mock results by then.

Maths A Level is a huge leap if you are not one of those ‘maths genius’ types. I had one child who is, and who did FM A Level too. My other child got 9 at GCSE Maths and goodness they struggled with the A Level. We spent a lot of money on a tutor as it did not come naturally to them. I was very proud when they scraped the A they needed. But it was a hell of an ordeal.

My child who did Physics A Level found it challenging but not as much as FM. But they are doing it at university so it’s ‘their’ subject.

I feel for your son. Maths is hard.

Having a similar issue with my DD doing A levels in Year 12.
Parents evening went well, and she was predicted As. But In her recent assessments she got D and E….
I think she’s just not putting the hours in. As others have said, just good attendance and doing the homework is not enough.

I am hoping it will be a wake-up call for her.

However Uni applications won’t go in until Autumn so I think they will take predicted grades from later in the year. But I also think we have to be realistic with the Universities we look at.

I have a younger child who likes Maths but it doesn’t come that easy. I am strongly discouraging them from doing Maths A Level as it’s not needed for their humanities degree plan. It’s up to them of course but they need to go in with their eyes open.

Sounds like my DD - she is planning on taking it as a 4th a level to see how it goes. She is very clear though and we have discussed that if she struggles with workload that will be the one that's goes. As it will be harder for her to obtain an A than in her humanities.

thanks. He wants to do Physics with Astronomy at university so the Maths was a necessary and tbh - he wanted to do it. I didn't appreciate the step up. Am hoping we have a few more opps before Sept/Oct submissions but I feel like its going to be a long road.

thats really helpful thank you. We have also deployed a tutor so fingers crossed that will help with Maths too...

yep us too

The message from the disappointing grades is that your DS is not working/studying effectively enough at the moment. Concentrate on finding out what could be done about this ( the discussion with DS and Maths teachers) and encourage him to do it so he can do as well as possible in his exams.
Dont get too distracted about when predicted grades etc are made, tackle the issue which is probably down to effort/ practice, assuming the teachers are happy to help DS understand the concepts and provide suitable work.

I’m guessing maths is essential for his future uni subject so he has a good reason to up his game. Tutor should be able to help too. But please get into the detail with his maths teacher. I’m always surprised at how many parents are very reluctant to do this. Your DS maths teacher can probably give you a very full account of what your DS understands/doesn’t get, and what he does/doesn’t do at the moment and why he got D/E while perhaps he might have got a better grade. This information should help, along with the teacher explaining what DS should do to improve.

thanks yes will do. It doesn't help that I am not really big on either topic but will try and find out where he's falling behind. they have gone really fast as I guess a lot to get through in 18 months but fingers crossed.