Secondary School Appeals

[Dacadactyl]

Hi

Can anyone offer advice as to how to go about putting together a successful secondary school appeal, please?

I have read that you have to appeal FOR the school you want, rather than against the one you don't, but I'm not sure what that actually looks like when they both offer the same sort of subjects.

Thanks for any tips.

Thismeansnothing - it would be better to start your own thread, as otherwise separate conversations about different potential appeals are likely to become entangled.

That said … I doubt an appeal panel would be persuaded by the argument about better progress 8 scores, partly because that’s as much about the offered school as the preferred school, but also because it’s an argument that this is the “better school”, which carries no weight at appeal because otherwise the “better” schools would be overflowing and the “worse” schools would be empty. The counter-argument from the LEA and the preferred school will be that even in a mixed ability class there will be differentiation.

You need to turn this into an argument about why this isn’t just a better school, but a better school for your child. By all means mention things about the maths provision (especially if the preferred school offers extension activities or takes part in Olympiads which the offered school doesn’t) but the points around being an arts school offering GCSE dance etc are potentially going to be more persuasive.

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

Thanks for your comments. Sorry thought this was a general thread for those wanting to go through the process. But having read the posts there's some good tips 🙂

Did your son get into first choice school eventually? Either via waiting list or appeal?

Yes, he did. There was an administrative error in his case so he shot up the list. His friend also got in and he was 14th.

I helped my friend with her appeal with support from people on here. They had very particular family circumstances that meant it was unlikely his appeal wouldn't be successful.

Thank you.

I appealed in similar circs. DS1 had just left, having got in from the same address, so I thought DS2 would be ok.

We got furthest distance offered info from school, and found we were 8m outside this.

We based part of the appeal on lack of clarity as to precisely where the measurement of distance was made from. We showed that placing a pin in the school according to Google maps and drawing a circle with diameter of the furthest stated offer distance went precisely over our front door. The staff present on the day couldn't say precisely where the measurement was from, which introduced the possibility that a measurement error was possible. We had other arguments related to mental well-being. We also looked at how the school chose to teach some set groups in maths and English in smaller numbers, meaning some of their other classes were over 30 at their choice, with no impact on gcse results which continued rising. They had also admitted a bulge class significantly over PAN to accommodate youngsters when another school closed, demonstrating that if they could accommodate 30 extra one year, they could accommodate 1 extra another year. We also mentioned our older DS' experience in the corridors, as yes busy but well organized, with flow systems in place and generally managing well (school was arguing that the corridors were dangerously overcrowded between lessons)

I am not sure what swung it in the end, as we never did receive a report, just the result. However I do know only 2 appeals were successful, ours being one.

Are the previous years statistics based on 1st March allocation or by September of the same year? How close are you to previous years cut off points? It sounds like you knew it might be a risk not getting a place if you had thought about moving home closer to the school. It will be a little bit before waitlists are available and may be just wishful thinking that there is an admissions error.

@BettySundaes they are the stats as of 1st March 2023 for Sept 2023 allocation.

In my DDs year of Sept 2018 start date, she would have been one of the last to be admitted, going on last distance allocated. The local Catholic school then was inadequate so I thought she had no hope of getting into the one she did (and the one which we wanted our son to go to).

In 2019, they went to the criteria below the one my son (and DD) was placed in. Same in 2020 and 2021 and the 5 previous years to 2018.

We had considered moving because my husband is cautious and wanted to guarantee DS would get into the school. I said that the trend was for people this far out to get in, going back 10 years, even when other schools were inadequate. I honestly thought he'd get in. This year we have missed out by 0.7 of a mile on distance, which is much further than I'd like when thinking about waiting list.

@BettySundaes sorry, to clarify, all the stats I'm quoting above are March allocation for Sept start date in the year I mention.

The oversubscription criteria may have changed, perhaps more than once, since 2018; the PANs of schools in the area may have changed and most importantly 2023 is a peak year for lots of LAs in terms of the primary bulge moving to secondary phase. You also need to consider pupil yield from new housing in the area. All these things and more can impact on how far out schools recruit on distance. Your husband may have been right about his proposal to move a bit closer.

@LadyLapsang yes there have been new houses built relatively close by to the school recently. I am kicking myself for my actions tbh. We should've moved years ago when my husband first suggested it.

I will accept the offered place and appeal for the school we really want, fingers crossed he gets in. However, if he doesn't, he will have to make the best of the local Catholic school. It is a lot closer to home and has improved since DD was applying, which are both plus points.

Hello,
My son didn't get a place in his chosen high school even though it was the only school in the catchment area and our first choice.
We want to appeal the decision against the local council.

Has anyone got any experience in appealing and what should we be doing.

All his friends are going to the one he wanted to go to and he's quite upset about it.

Logistically, socially and travelling wise all are problematic for the allocated school but no the catchment area one.

He has cochlear implants for hearing and is under a specialist for his eyes.
The school we wants specialises in sight problem children and the one he's got specialise in hearing problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hi, you have responded to my thread instead of starting your own. If you go to the board "secondary education" and start a thread on there entitled something like "appeals medical reasons" someone will help you.

We are also going to appeal on behalf of our son, so it is all new to me too. As such, I would be reluctant to offer advice.

I do think you need to gather all medical documents that will support your case. Anything from consultants, clinics, hospitals, GP etc. Also, if your child's current school offer any adjustments, ask if the SENCO can write a report about how he is being assisted. I would ask the new school how they intend to support his sight problems too, to see if they are going to be able to do it in any sort of fashion you're happy with.

But if you start your own thread, people with actual experience will be able to help you. Good luck.

Shakeel - please do start your own thread, as otherwise all the different conversations here will become entangled.

Very briefly, the reasons you mention (travel, social, staying with friends) won’t carry any weight at appeal. You may be able to argue that your child has a medical need for a place at your preferred school because it caters for children with vision problems, but this may not be straightforward because the school or local education authority may argue that the allocated school is suitable because it will cater for their needs around hearing impairment. You’ll therefore need to identify all the reasons why your preferred school will meet your child’s needs and they’ll be disadvantaged if they don’t get a place.

@PanelChair please could you tell me whether the panel is likely to comprise of a teacher from another local school in the Borough? Or do they use out of Borough teachers?

Could teacher from the school my son has been given a place at, actually be on the panel for the one I'm appealing for?

Thanks

There’s no requirement to have a teacher on the panel, although they must have at least one person ‘experienced in education’.

I’ve never met a teacher or teaching assistant who sits as a panel member, although I guess there may be some. Paragraph 1.8 of the appeals code forbids teachers and teaching assistants from sitting on panels hearing appeals for their own school. The code doesn’t say anything about teachers or teaching assistants hearing or not hearing appeals where the child has been offered a place at the school where they work, but in my LEA that would disqualify them from sitting; all panel members are required to confirm that they don’t have a connection or perceived connection to the appellant.

@PanelChair thank you, that's great. I'm hoping that's the way our LA will operate then. I don't want a person from the offered school to be on our appeals panel for the one we want. Thanks again.

Hi.

We as a family recently returned to the UK after 10 years.

in those 10 years we have been blessed with three children.

we applied for primary places in Cardiff for year 4 and year 2. We selected a school where their cousins are going so that there journey into new school life is smoother as they have to deal with a new country, school, norms and the continuous rain... ☺️

however, the council rejected it and we appealed against the decision.

the hearing for the appeal is next week and we are trying to understand how should we be preparing.

we have read some generic counselling on what to expect on the day but if someone can help us on the do's and dont's of this process, it would greatly help us.

Many thanks in advance.

Start a new thread rather than go on this ine

You would be best to start a new thread in the primary section. Also have a read of infant class size rules. It is a very high bar to get a place for year 2 and is generally only if a mistake has been made or there are very exceptional circumstances. Therefore as well as appealing, you would be wise to find out where they can offer you places, if your appeal is not successful.

The appeal is taking place in Cardiff. All my experience is with the appeal code and process in England and so I can’t advise. I suggest you start a new thread, mentioning Wales in the title and then people familiar with the system in Wales might be able to help.

If they are in yr 11 its hard to move them (impossible)

Advice needed for a successful appeal.
So My daughter had a secondary school place beginning September 2024, she attended but wasnt coping very well this was due to her mother passing away in the (summer holidays 2024) the school weren't really understanding about this and they were more bothered about attendance,so I took my daughter out of school and home educated her,know she wants to go back to school and I feel it's in her best interests to go back but the school have refuse her a place stating there a full. No other secondary schools in area and really need help to appeal this. Can anyone advise me please 🙏

@VividMember it would be better if you start your own thread on this. To do that, use "Start a New Thread"(at the top of the page under the down arrow) rather than "Add Post" (at the bottom of each previous post).

@MNHQt