Online lessons because schools can't recruit and retain teachers

[Hayliebells]

A school local to me has written to parents to explain that some science lessons will be via pre-recorded online learning, with students in computer rooms, as they haven't got enough Science teachers to teach all the timetabled lessons. This is where an inability to recruit and retain teachers leads, and it's shameful. We really are a two tier society now, with students in private schools in small classes, taught by specialist teachers, and students in state schools effectively teaching themselves at a computer. Pre-recorded lessons aren't even as good as many schools were offering for online learning during lockdown, it's the opposite of responsive teaching. Where's the opportunity to address misconceptions, to answer the students questions? This is not teaching, and only a minority of students can learn this way. Online lessons are standard in countries like Mexico, for families who cannot afford private schools. They have schools made up of computer suites, with students sat learning via online lessons all day, and staff just there to supervise. This is not just the future of schools in the UK if we carry on as we are, it's happening now. How anyone can think this is OK is beyond me. The government should be ashamed.

I disagree with the post above by @quickbathroombreak . I teach in a private school school and have taught in a few over my career. I have always been paid significantly above the state pay scale. I couldn't afford to go back into the state sector. Sure, some private schools pay much lower, but a great many pay significantly over the state sector scale. That's how they get the staff. I'm talking about large established HMC schools here. Pay is very good indeed in many of these - my husband is also a teacher and our household salary is around £120k, which many state school teaching couples could likely not say!

I do agree though that the recruitment crisis is hitting all schools- we have found it difficult to recruit top quality staff in some shortage subjects recently. We have had applicants though, just not the same quality we are used to.

Yes more teaching will be online - no going back. It could be good. I have no reason think it would be as good as an expert, well paid and rested face to face teacher though.

At the end of the day there are more of us plebs than there are of the monied elite and we all have 1 vote. I'm not nearly as angry at the scumbag tories as I am at the stupid voters who give them power then start blustering when it turns out they've shot themselves in the foot - again.

Just to be clear, Mexico has telesecundarias to met the needs of isolated communities not as a standard thing in secondary schools

I'm not quite sure what young people you are familiar with, but the thousands that I am familiar with, are not capable of learning adequately online. The fact that a university student can do it, isn't really evidence that a 12 year old can! And those university students will be the ones who have actually acquired the necessary grades at GCSE and A-Level, along with the independent learning skills developed throughout their schooling, to access university. The fact you think that the average 11-15 year old should be able to do that same, is laughable. Are we just going to resign those students who don't have the self motivation and skills to learn independently, to the scrap heap?

It's not online learning at home, it's online learning in school. So students sat in a computer room doing online lessons, watching pre-recorded videos, with an adult there for supervision only.

So do we win the prize for being the first country to move to online learning in bog standard secondary schools? I'm not sure that's a leaderboard we want to be top of....

I have not found this to be true, pay and conditions are often worse in private schools, and you don't really have a division between private and state school teachers, the same individuals teach in both sectors throughout their careers, quite often.

I have seen multiple classes combined into huge sports halls, with students all seated at exam tables, so that 4 classes can be covered by 2 teachers, in both state and private schools

A virtual prerecorded lesson comes absolutely no way near a teacher. What happens when the student has a question? Who corrects misunderstandings? How is the more able student challenged? So so naive to suggest pp that this is somehow superior to a qualified teacher standing in front of a class...

sounds like yours is the exception! There have been strikes over pay and conditions in private schools around here

Yes agree the conditions are often worse too - no burgundy book, no recognition of union membership, no teachers pension, poorer sick pay provision, no automatic progression up a pay scale with good performance reviews, no going through threshold onto an upper pay scale...

@SummerWinds the children I teach can hardly stay in a classroom and wouldn't be able to access online learning.

While it is true that watching a video is better than having no teacher at all and simply staring at the wall, it is certainly not an adequate replacement for a good face-to-face teacher.

The idea that a selected cohort of motivated learners can learn certain things from watching a video therefore so can all teenagers and children is just balls. Everyone knows it's balls and it's embarrassing that you thought you might convince people.

It's not online learning at home, it's online learning in school. So students sat in a computer room doing online lessons, watching pre-recorded videos, with an adult there for supervision only.

Oh I see. Great plan.

Then people could set up,businesses where instead of lessons being delivered online, a person could be employed to deliver those lessons 'live' and in person, for a fee, to small groups. Perhaps they could employ people who knew about science for example to do the science parts and some arty for the art. I might copyright this.

And this is why we’re striking! The cuts to school budgets and the cuts to teacher wages have a direct impact on children’s ability to learn.

It’s going to lead to negative effects on children’s lifestyles, as parents scrimp and stretch to afford private education because state schools are so bad.

I'm sorry I just can't agree with this.

For some children this may actually be a better option, but for many it's catastrophic. Looking at results in higher education is a fallacy because you're only looking at students, who narrowed down their focus to their talents and interests and have already shown a degree of ability to pass exams etc.

Teachers also do more than

Sorry,

Do more regurgitate information, think safe guarding, providing information for/ working with EHCP. It also increases the advantages of an educated/ academic family and further scuppers those that don't.

ok, so explain this to me,

last time I did online learning I had a "class" of 240

How am I supposed to take the register? How am I supposed to see which students are having which issue? Which students are working, and which are not? Which need help? who is happy? Who is being bullied? who is copying the answers? Who needs to be stretched?

Yes, there are ways of doing all this online, with a class of 30, but if there were only 30 students needing a teacher, it wouldn't be online, would it?

Even worse, when students are not even watching online live, and at least able to signal thumbs up or thumbs down if they understand or not - you can at least maybe do a quick tally and see of yes, 237 students say they understand this, if it is live online, but of course you have no idea if they are telling the truth, or even know what the tally is for. In a prerecorded lesson, you can't even do that

Most kids do not have the discipline to learn online or from video tutorials. We know this from covid. Yes there are a small number of kids with parents who could support them at home who loved this style of learning. They are primarily kids whose parents think home Ed is best or who have other social or mental health problems. The vast majority of kids need to go to school. Our schools are struggling g to recruit and retain teachers. The main issue is behaviour in my view. Student behaviour is pretty hideous. It is draining to spend hours preparing lessons when some students do everything they can to not engage and in some cases to ruin the lesson for others. These students then move on to misbehave in social times and around the school. Add to this the number of pastoral and mental health issues being det with by school staff and the constant pressure to do more and you have your answer to the issue of retention and recruitment.

I'm a teacher. Worked for 12 years in state and jumped to private as I didn't want to deal with the increasingly poor behaviour of the kids. Schools can do nothing about it as ofsted downgrade the school if the have too many exclusions - even if they are for a day or two.

When I made the switch I was on the same wage as I had been in state. I relocated with the family and at my new independent school I was on less than I had been on in state. Then when issues with teachers pensions scheme contributions in independent schools started to become an issue I ended up getting paid even less as I had to top up myself.

But even though I get paid less than in state there is no way whatsoever that I would move back to state education. When we relocated i interviewed in a state school first. I taught the requisite interview lesson to a class, spent the day in the school observing and then when I went into the interview room I said that even if offered the job I won't take it. It's just dire.

My only relief for getting paid less than my state colleagues is that I get a fee discount and this means my two dc can go through my school rather than having to go into the state system.

The system is broken but it wasn't the lack of funding that did it- it's ofsted

totally agree @huji

ofsted have destroyed the english education system

remember when they went "off" text books? Millions of pounds worth of resources dumped, and nothing ever replaced them.

No we are beyond desperate for those old text books.

I'm in the same situation. But I think we're talking about a fairly small (and dwindling) number of schools that are in this strong a position. Even among the big HMC schools, some are really struggling, with finances as well as teacher recruitment. I think private schools as a whole will be hit both hardest and least hard by this situation - in the sense that the most precarious will implode and close, while the likes of mine and yours in the strongest minority will find things very tough but will ultimately be OK and probably suffer less impact than the state sector.

I used to break myself trying to come up with ways of teaching chemistry to kids who were so dyslexic they couldn't read or write and are certainly never going to need to know about the structure of an atom or ionic or covalent bonding. And that's the really basic stuff of gcse chemistry we teach them in the first month.

The whole educational system needs a rehaul, those kids could be learning something vocational, they are wasting their time and it's no wonder behaviour is so bad.

I know the secondary modern/grammar system was so hated but similar systems work in other countries as long as it is fluid and you are not pigeonholed age 11 if you didn't make the grade. There should be the ability to switch at 13+ and 16+ so gcse equivalents still offered as options at the more vocational schools

It is a severe crisis and disgraceful that things have come to this. This is just one visible problem, but there is a massive ongoing recruitment crisis under the radar. My niece in a London comprehensive has only ever been taught computer science by a various supply teachers since September last year.

About this though -
We really are a two tier society now, with students in private schools in small classes, taught by specialist teachers, and students in state schools effectively teaching themselves at a computer

I am not so sure.

From my personal experience, the crisis is affecting the independent sector acutely too, at least in London.

The worst such example I know of is when South Hampstead High School (quite a high profile school in London, 21K fees) jointily advertised for a chemistry teacher position with another nearby state school because neither could fill that position independently. South Hampstead had that position open for five months!

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/chemistry-teacher-london-recruitment-crisis-state-schools-b1057751.html

In my DD's senior school in London (about 22K fee), a long standing English teacher left, and an entire term went by before they could find a replacement. We now really worry about who would leave next!

I think teacher salaries are simply not competitive enough in this country, and as a result, many are leaving the profession for better opportunities elsewhere, fewer joining the profession, shrinking the pool of available teachers for both independent and state sector.

Just as you would expect in a free market.

To attract people more people into the profession, better conditions and pay are required.