Guildford High School or Surbiton High School on academic scholarship

[cath112]

We’ve narrowed down our decision to either Guildford High School or Surbiton High School on an academic scholarship for our daughter. We really like GHS and think it would suit our daughter, however we live within walking distance of Surbiton High School. Those people with girls at GHS, do many girls travel on the train from Surbiton?

Also wondering about academics at both school. We’re aware that the girls are set for maths, but is there sufficient stretch/challenge for more able girls at SHS? Conversely, is there an excessively high level of academic pressure at GHS, especially at GSCE or A level? What is the pastoral care like at GHS, especially in terms of off setting academic pressure in such a high achieving school?

Would be interested to hear from those with scholarships at SHS, whether it really offers much additional benefit to students? From a financial perspective, are there different levels of fee reduction offered?

SHS feels like a very high number of pupils on a relatively small footprint-does it feel overcrowded from a pupil/parent perspective. I know they had an extra 2 forms in the current year 7. Has this had a negative impact? It feels a little disjointed wrt buildings/classrooms being on different sites with a busy road in between. Does this work ok from a pupil perspective?

As you can see, we are struggling to decide! Do we go for the academically higher achieving school with a 30 minute train journey, or the bigger less academic and slightly cramped feeling school on our doorstep? Will a bright child achieve as well in both environments, and do we just choose the easier journey? Our daughter is confident and resilient and enjoys being stretched, but we don’t want her to be under excess pressure to succeed.

Would be very grateful for any insights/thoughts?

I don't have a DD at either school, but see lots of girls getting the train to GHS from the station near me (which is a stop close to Surbiton).

I went to GHS and commuted from Surbiton station, although I had to take the bus from Tolworth. In total, a 1h journey.

A large % of the year commutes in by train and lots of people took the Waterloo -> Guildford train with kids getting on at Surbiton, Hinchley Wood, Claygate..etc. one girl in my year even commuted from London. It's doable, although it was tiring.

Academics wise/networking wise, wouldn't have had it any other way. Unfortunately was also bullied quite badly during my time there, but came out of it with lifelong friends.

Have you thought about sports as they do offer different options?
The difference in a scholarship v full fees and train fare is quite a lot too as well as the time saved travelling. But saying that lots of dd travel on the surbiton train line to GHS.

Go for the closest - do not under estimate the complete ballache of being taxi driver for parties and hangouts as they get older. Girls at GHS will come from the depths of Surrey and Hampshire as well as north of Guildford. These are both great schools, but the social side is important and a more local set of friends is better

I wholly agree - if you can walk to SHS then go for that. A journey of up to 1 hr each way is not to be overlooked and how many times will you end up driving to pick them up after sports fixtures, late fininishing clubs etc. How would they get there for example if there were train strikes or other issues with the railway. Go for the easy option. SHS has a smaller intake this year to balance the larger intake last year so they will be more opportunities for your daughters year to be involved in sports, drama etc.

A bright child will do well anywhere so make their life a little easier with the commute and then they can choose what to do with that time (school or outside of school clubs).

This is a no brainer let her walk to school.

Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it.

She’s not sporty, so that’s not really a consideration.

The scholarship is not huge, but will make a difference financially and there will be additional travel costs to Guildford. It’s not enough of a difference to make the decision for SHS.

I’m not sure how much added benefit there will be to her as a pupil from the scholar’s program from the information we’ve been given so far. The mentoring is group based, and the enrichment sessions etc seem fairly infrequent. Again, I’m not sure it’s enough of a reason to turn down GHS.

From her prep school experience, where she was often bored or not sufficiently challenged, I think she’d benefit from being stretched. I know many families see SHS as a back up school to the more academic schools such as GHS or LEH, so I’m wondering whether she’d be more likely to get that stretch within a cohort at GHS? We feel that she may coast if not given the opportunity for stretch.

The train station is only 5 mins walk from our house, and it’s a 30 minute train ride to GHS. We’d drop and collect her from Surbiton station at the beginning anyway, and likely in the winter months. Clearly being able to walk herself to and from school would be easier and cheaper though!

I guess ultimately we prefer GHS, and don’t want to choose SHS purely for the sake of convenience or to be overly swayed by the scholarship offer.

Any insight from parents with girls in these two senior schools would be really helpful. Thanks so much!

My daughter has been in GHS since prep and now in Year 7. She absolutely loves it. Since all girls are bright in their own way, they do compliment each other. She sometimes does take the train and like the independence, but if I had an option I would have preferred to live closer to the school so that she'd be able to walk.

As someone mentioned, bright kids do well wherever they are, so if you are able to save commuting time for other activities, why not. But GHS is a fantastic school!

@cath112 , I'm a SHS parent but at the end of the school. If she isn't sporty then I would go for GHS where she will be stretched more. The sport esp the hockey, rowing and football at SHS are amazing so if they don't make a difference and you are going on academics alone you should go for the more academic school. I don't know re this year but in the past SHS has given out many scholarships that haven't been accepted esp from dd who go on to Tiffin. When my dd joined almost a third of the class had academic scholarships (this is a long time ago under the old head), they didn't do anything extra.

My daughter is in SHS year 7 now. I would like to say SHS is really amazing.
I was a bit worried about the extra in-take before but ended up totally fine. My DD never feels too crowded in the school. Also, the good thing about a big school is the opportunities - tones of activities for selections including, art, sports, drama, performances, trips, etc. We never being rejected when we signed up the events. Although my DD is not on the top tier in music or drama, she still able to have chances to participate. The cohorts in her form are very bright - many gave up WHS, PHS, KGS offers to join SHS. The academic level is higher than I expected.

The school communication is unbelievably organised - there will be weekly emails including all the updates and the future events. All the event sign ups only by clicking the links to join. Also, communications to teachers are very open and easy. I worked in Fortune 500 companies before, I would say SHS communications/ organised level are world class which makes us as parents life much easier.

School culture is another thing I love about the school. Parents are super nice and down to earth. Girls are very well behaved. My DD's class has many different small groups of friends yet whole class is very harmonious. DD said she loves everyone in her class. No bullying at all.

@cath112 I don't know about GHS directly but I am sure it must be very good too. Yet, I think staying close to the school is really important. I am sure both GHS and SHS would provides many opportunities for cohorts. I as a parents would strongly suggest my DD to try and join more different activities in particular year 7&8 when academically less stressed. As a result, my DD almost off from school at 5-6pm everyday. We used to travel a hour to SHS at the start of the term but we ended moved close to the school which as a result a relieve for the whole family. We can enjoy more time for family and personal times from the time we saved.
I have friends whose kids are not lives closer to schools, they can only limit their kids to join 1-2 after school clubs only. The distance also limits the social networking with classmates for their kids.

you haven't yet mentioned what your daughter thinks - what are her thoughts?

You say you don't what to choose SHS for convinence which is all very well but its not you who will be inconvinienced by going to GHS - its your daughter which is why her opinion is vital.

Agreed - but at 11 she won’t have a concept of how important it is as a teen to have a group of friends close by, which is something parents can anticipate and weigh up

any then ignore and choose the furthest option presumably !

Presumably you were prepared for DD to travel or you wouldn’t have applied. I always think that if it’s the harder to get into school that is the distance away, it’s worth doing the journey at school times to see what it’s like and considering if you really would want your DD to do it. If yes, then apply. If not, then don’t. I can see why you’d feel you had to if it was a back-up, but not if your top choice was nearer and easier to get into. What happens when you leave it to now, is it’s hard to turn down the more academic and prestigious option.

I’d say, don’t be influenced by the scholarship. As you say, it’s not much money. Most of these are given to make you more likely to choose them over an alternative option. And it works as people like the kudos. In most schools, whatever scholarship programme they have is also offered to all students, although scholars are personally encouraged to attend.

I guess if you go for the local option though, a way to support your choice is both the journey and the scholarship.

Lots would go for GHS. It is probably in different league to be honest. But as others say the journey is really important and no-one should be doing a daft journey. It’s why I think people should identify what’s daft before applying.

Good luck in choosing. In the end, she will do really well at either.

Just looked again at the times of the journey you mentioned.

To be honest, that doesn’t look too bad.

Yes, friends will be more spread out if she goes to GHS and you’ll have evening and weekend drives for school events. However as people mention, a lot of the extremely bright in your area will go to Tiffin and people might travel from further than you’d think for SHS too.

I think you must have really wanted GHS to apply. It is incredibly impressive and I think you’d have a different experience there, just because of the academic level of the students being different. Of course there will be very bright girls at SHS too…but more at GHS and those numbers can create a different dynamic.

Is this cold feet about the journey, or a worry that’s been there all the time? Is it the scholarship influencing you and pulling you?

Definitely have a go at the journey. It’s clearly better to not have that journey, but in the end, the question is if it’s worth it and just how bad the journey is. 45 mins sounds okay to me. 1 hr 15 mins doesn’t.

i would totally agree with above poster - i was surprised too at the academic nature of SHS. My DD is bright but didn't want a highly competitive school, and she has a very bright cohort (who also turned down other choices).
In terms of being stretched i do think a lot of this thinking of one school being less academic is a touch outdated. There are SO many children applying that they all become selective in the end.
I don't know anything about Guildford so can't speak to it but i do know SHS.
While SHS may not be SPSG it is certainly full of very bright kids. Your child is obviously very bright and she will find her people.
It is a big school. It is a sporty school. You sometimes have to stand up and ask for help if you feel your child is flying under the radar (mine did a bit) but they jump to help. Some amazing teachers there too, who really care about them. The 3 sites means they walk a lot. The sports ground is lovely and they go often. Is it perfect? Of course not but if i had a choice and one was local i would always choose that. Good luck with your choice.

Is moving closer to GHS an option? I agree convenience and local friends are important. I would choose GHS though and move closer if needs be, but that's just me. GHS seems like such an amazing opportunity to refuse. You can always change to SHS later if your DD struggles, but you can't really move from SHS to GHS as less movement and only a handful of occasional places.

We live under 10 mins walk from
our school and it’s rare a week goes by when I don’t feel thankful for that. Train strikes or cancelled trains have no impact, early starts or late finishes aren’t as painful. Friends often come round because we are close. They can pop home after school and go back if there is an evening activity. Parents evening etc don’t take all evening because we have to travel there etc etc. Its saved so much time over the years.

What did you decide OP?

Many thanks for all your helpful replies, and apologies for the silence over the last couple of days.

In terms of my daughter’s views, GHS was her top choice when we went to the open days. All 3 of us really liked the school, and felt it would be a good fit for our DD if she was to be offered a place. We did consider travel time, train times etc and felt a half an hour train journey (with 5 mins walk at our end and even less at Guildford) was feasible. If I’m honest we probably dismissed some of our concerns at the time as we loved the school. It’s all become more real now, and we’re starting to worry about whether the trade off (earlier starts, train travel and less local friends) will be worth it? My daughter also seems to have started her teen years early and it’s becoming more of a struggle to get her up and out of the house in the morning!

@WombatChocolate I think doing the train journey at school times is a very sensible idea, and I don’t know why I didn’t think of it myself earlier. I can certainly try and do this myself now.

Moving towards Guildford isn’t an option for various reasons. So ultimately we have to decide what’s more important-a school which on paper at least is more academic but a train ride away, or a good school that is walking distance allowing for more local friends, activities etc. I’m really not sure how we’ll decide tbh! My husband is leaning towards SHS from a practical perspective, but I’d probably choose GHS. We’re trying to remain impartial and let my daughter make the ultimate decision without being overly influenced by either of us, but she’s feeling overwhelmed with it all. I suspect she’d prefer to go to GHS, but is worried that she will struggle to get herself there on time!

The extra dynamic at play I think is that we all slightly regret not applying for Tiffins. It was our plan all along, and then my daughter lost her nerve just as I was about to register her. I was also a bit concerned whether it would be too pressured an environment, so in the end we didn’t register her. We couldn’t quite decide whether she was better as a big fish in a small pond etc, and whether she might struggle if she was in middle sets etc. But we regretted it once the deadline had passed. I think maybe we’re now fearful of making the wrong decision, and letting another opportunity go? Of course, there’s no guarantee she would have been offered a place there, but we wish she’d tried as now we’ll never know!

There’s an offer holders marketplace event at SHS tomorrow, so let’s see if that helps at all. Unfortunately GHS don’t have any such event scheduled.

Thanks again all for all the different perspectives-I’m finding it really helpful.

OP, SHS have a very slick marketing pitch at the offer open day but ask your dd to focus on how much space is given to sport - it really is a very sporty school and opportunities like rowing are amazing.
I asked my dd who is in the 6th form what your dd should do if academic but not sporty as she said go for GHS.

OP, I’d say that you have to make the decision and not place that responsibility on your 10/11 year old. Yes, listen to what she says, but lift some of the pressure from her, by telling her you’re listening to everything she says, but can rely on you to make the decision.

It’s likely that whichever option you go for, will at some point involve her or you wondering g if the other option might have been better. Far better that at that point she can think it’s your fault and blame you, rather than herself.

So if you’re feeling really torn, I’d try not to say too much about it and try to avoid going round and round in circles verbally in front of her.

Do the test journey, go to the offer holders days and keep an open mind ….and then make your decision.

If you regret not doing Tiffin a bit, especially now if the GHS offer makes you think you had a better chance than you might have imagined, GHS might be right. It will have the academic rigour of Tiffin, with the benefits paying fees has, which can soften things. Sometimes, when people choose the less academic option, even though their kids go onto do exceptionally well, they often have a sense of missing out on the more academic environment and cohort, which can be quite different. On one hand that can be quite stressful for some, but for others, the driven cohort can be really motivating and stimulating. I guess you do have to make a judgement about your DD.

I’d say the journey sounds doable. People do choose daft journeys and that’s never good. Without doubt, being able to walk to school has a lot of benefits. When you’re choosing between equal schools, going for the local one would clearly make sense. However lots of kids travel some distance for a better school. It’s not unusual.

In the end, there isn’t a definite right answer and different people in your situation would reach different conclusions and their DDs will do well in both schools. Hopefully the offer holders events and testing the journey will throw some light on it all. Do bear in mind that these events are very much a massive big push to get people to accept their offers. Quite how much you can really tell is difficult to know and you can find yourself being swayed by piddly little things that do t really matter, but you place more emphasis on because everything feels so finely balanced. I guess for you the key thing is about the journey and how significant that is for the more academic environment. You’ll have to decide which you prioritise. But make it your decision because a 10/11 year old isnt really in a position to be able to properly weigh the possible impacts and shouldn’t have to feel the responsibility lies on her shoulders.

All the best. I’m sure it will become clear to you. Let us know your choice in the end - it’s always fascinating to see what people decide after you’ve followed their thinking through the process.

In your position, I would pick GHS. My DD is there (and older DD left a few years ago) and we committed to a similar train commute. It was absolutely fine and I think actually helped my DD make friends early on in Year 7. There are big groups of GHS girls on that train line (along with RGS and Tormead pupils - they all make friends). The staff also go on the London Road train platforms the first few weeks of Year 7 to keep an eye and help pupils. With the strikes, parents tend to join together and quickly sort lifts and car shares. It has not been too tricky. Parents meetings are now more online so it is just the odd concert or event you would go to. Remember senior school is quite different to primary in terms of parents dropping in.

The school is really excellent. Over recent years it has got noticeably at including all and finding ways to celebrate all personalities and interests. The pastoral care is strong. The cohorts are all girls who love learning and it is cool to be engaged in subjects and ask questions there. This is not in a pushy way and the girls are also very normal teenagers who have their moments! A new head is coming next September as Mrs Boulton is moving on. I don't think this will make a big difference though. A lot of the senior team have been there a long time and it has a lot of well oiled systems.

I completely agree. She will do well at both schools. Wasting so much time and taking risks on travel such a distance may actually impact her performance at GHS. Obviously it would be perfect if you could move.