Bursaries at 11 plus

[lolo99]

Can anyone tell me/guide me or even privately message me about bursaries vs salary in the SW independent schools. I am not sure what their cut off point for salaries is. Obviously I will find out when we eventually apply but would be keen to know people's experience already. We are a one parent household under 50k salary.

It will depend on your other expenses too? How much I your rent or mortgage?
Is the other parent involved at all?

The thing is, each bursary application will be assessed individually - probably based on your:

•income
•assets
•outgoings
•likely impact on the family of the child attending the school
•and, crucially, just how much they want the child to join the school

It’s likely each school will vary from any other - and they’re entirely free to make a decision about one child that seemingly differs inexplicably from the decision on another with apparently similar circumstances.

But you don’t need to wait until you officially apply to make an informal enquiry to the bursar. There should firstly be some guidance on the bursary section of each website, too.

My observation would suggest that single parents are viewed positively in the bursary application process. But it really does depend on what they feel your child could bring to the school.

It depends on the school, they all have different policies.

At our school it's a maximum of £50k per household on paper, but offered on basis of household income - so they decide who passes the tests & interview first, then out of those they would offer a place to, the poorest get offered the bursary places first. I don't know the exact incomes of who gets a bursary each year (the financial assessment is actually outsourced to a private company nothing to do with the school), but I'd be surprised in practice if it reached anything like £50k.

For single parent families, they push quite hard to have both parents assessed and you have to demonstrate that the non-resident parent has no or minimal contact. And you have to be reassessed every year, so if you got a new partner later then his/her income could also be counted.

As a guide, I know a family member in a household income of £30k (London, so really not a lot) was offered a 100% funded place at one school, a 50% reduction at two others.

But do ask at the schools you're interested in. It's fine to make enquiries in advance.

You will probably find that the better known schools (which tends often to mean more academically selective) have more money to offer and higher cut off points. Do you mean SW England or SW London? Because the answers are going to be radically different for those two locations!

I would suggest emailing the bursar at schools that you are interested in with a rough explanation of your financial position and asking if you could talk to someone about the likelihood of your being offered a bursary. Usually they are happy to help - anywhere that isn't happy to help you can strike off your list immediately, which is actually sort of helpful in a way.

@lolo99 , I replied to your post on the Reeds thread. It would help the kind Mumsnetters on this thread if you let them know that your ds has a Hampton 10 plus offer, my questions to you would be:
Have you paid the considerable deposit to secure the Hampton place?
Why did you take him through the Hampton process if you knew that you couldn't pay the fees?
Have you spoken to Hampton yet about the bursary programme? They have already spent considerable time and expense on your son, they have an extensive bursary programme with several dc in each year on a free place. Obviously it's dependent on your financial situation and that of your ds's other parent but it's surely your starting point?

Thank you- I can't really answer some of your queries as to why I put him through it and fees affordability as this is very private. I can however state that we cannot afford the fees now and no I have not paid the deposit as I was informed we should not as we would lose that money IF he did not get an 11 plus place awarded. Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your reply. Greatly appreciated.

Thank you. No, totally absent parent.

My wife works at a well-known private London school and often gives advice to friends.

My wife has colleagues at most of the SW schools, it’s a very small world, and they attend conferences , etc, anyway she says ( she never uses online forums) that a single parent, household of 50K, no contribution from father, which you can prove -i.e. liability orders from the court for failure to provide child care, etc , you will qualify for a sliding scale of bursary support at ANY LONDON PRIVATE SCHOOL.

BUT eligibility doesn’t mean an award, as the applicants always outstrip the pot, I’m afraid. As an offer of a place is independent of bursary application success, you could find yourself with an offer but no bursary offer or a very small one of 10% or even a token one of 5%.

I hope this helps, good luck.

Thank you that is really helpful

It’s not just about salary though. If you have savings or assets these will also be assessed. If you live in a £million house with no mortgage on it then you almost certainly would not qualify for a bursary as you could remortgage to pay school fees.

If you are renting a two bedroom flat and own no other property then the situation is far more promising.

Proof that the other parent is permanently absent would also be expected.

I used to audit bursary applications and the criteria vary widely. At some schools a bursary would only be awarded if the child also held a merit based scholarship. At others it was based purely on need so long as the child passed the entrance test.

Your best answer will be from the bursar at each school you are interested in. They usually have an information pack they can send you with their criteria included. They are also usually very happy to talk to you on the phone.

I think generally in London, not a rule, but the schools are a bit more flexible about house value, everyone who isn't renting has relatively valuable property in London, and if you rent you pay a fortune.

A household on 50K doesn't leave much tolerance to take on a big re-mortgage to dent fees, even 100K mortgage on most rates around now will cost over 500 quid a month, on 50K income , that's a big chunk a month, and this isn't the policy of many London schools to push a family on a low for London income into debt.

True if you have a million pound mortgage free property, its a different story to having a mortgage to pay, but I also suspect the OP, or most looking at bursary help aren't in that position.

Even so, a London private school I know has 'in theory' a bursary qualification for a household on 120K and net assets of 1.4 mil to put the mad SW London situation into context. Walking distance from the school in question, 1.4 mil would get you a very ordinary, plain looking 3 bed terrace. True a bursay offered by this school isn't going to be high for a household with 1.4 mil net assets and 120K income, but the fact a family like that are eligible, well it shows how mad things are in SW London, compared to the rest of the country, or say SE London.

So its all relative.

@DaddyPhD Indeed, and that is why the OP needs to contact individual bursars. I audited five SW London schools (we were used as external consultants to run the figures to check for eligibility).

You would, however, be very surprised by some people’s thinking behind bursaries and assets not counting. These examples are from over 20 years ago though and I’m sure don’t apply to the OP.

In my lifetime I saw a family who had a top of the range Range Rover and a Maserati on finance who couldn’t understand that they would be expected to drive less fancy cars and have an extra £600 a month towards fees.

Or the family with thirty rental properties, all owned outright but held in a company. All were listed in the Land Registry in their names.

Or the people with a house in the South of France which we picked up on through the numerous EasyJet payments at least twice a month.

Or the best one was the “single” parent who and “lived” in a small flat in Tower Hamlets. Ownership of the flat was with a company in her ex husbands name which was fine as he lived abroad and she paid rent. She declared no contact. We then uncovered she was listed as an active director of almost 20 companies, also in her ex husbands name - five of which were operational with a combined turnover of £200m. Turned out she actually lived rent free in a rather nice house in leafy north London, rent free, again owned by the ex. Her rental arrangements and involvement in active companies meant we could argue that the father was still around in some capacity (even if only through business arrangements) and could contribute to fees.

The great majority of applications were, however, from genuine hardworking families who needed help with fees. The process is intrusive for very good reason but I would encourage people to apply. They aren’t trying to make you destitute but do ask you to be realistic about outgoings and assets and whether you genuinely need help.

This is the sort of knowledge that could be very usefully shared on an AMA thread, @BookwormButNoTime .

We’ve benefitted hugely from bursaries at prep and public schools (not London) and I’ve spent far too much time on MN over the past decade assuring people without Ferraris or houses in Mayfair that they really should grasp all their courage and apply.

You must have seen some interesting things. The arrogance to think one never has to pick up the full bill is ingrained in some entitled parents. Its also morally so wrong to grab from a pot for households in genuine need.

One of my friends has a bursary for her son at a top London school, although it isnt a full bursary. I think they earn around 100k combined and their house is worth roughly 1mil. They can't remortgage house as they are already mortgaged 4.5x their income.

@3WildOnes The bursary assessment looks at “reasonableness”. If a modest semi in the local area of a London day school is £1m then yes it would be looked on favourably as being reasonable.

If they lived in a six bedroom house up north with acres of land with just one child then it would be argued that it was excessive for their needs and they could downsize to make fees more affordable.

It is all relative to circumstances and specific schools. You can’t just say that I earn x and do you think I will get a bursary? Many factors are taken into account.

@BookwormButNoTime exactly. House is in Chiswick and a three bed terrace.

Thank you, very helpful. I know from chats your DS/DD has to be near top of their pass rate in SW London to be considered. Here's hoping we get near that BUT even before that, It's whether we would qualify anyway. Thanks all for the contributions. IT's quite a lonely process all of this so I appreciate you not getting cross or snapping at my questions and queries.

I'm also a single parent myself. They tend to look more at your assets rather than specifically your income. So my salary is slightly above yours but my home is mortgage free and I have some savings. I'd be expected to remortgage or eat into my savings to pay the fees. I have a very small bursary at present.

What I would say is budget for no bursary at all. Mine was changed mid way and it was a shock to the system. I'm lucky in that I can just about cover the fees but many would have left the school

Thank you- with no bursary at all it would be no attendance as my salary wouldn’t cover the fees in any way even before I pay mortgage and bills. 😢

@lolo99 speak to the bursar directly, it's worth trying, especially in the bigger schools. It's really hard I know.