GSCE choices - Latin or Art?

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DS is at a selective school. He has chosen History and Religion and Philosophy as 2 of the 3 GCSE options (these were no brainers)

His third choice is between Latin and Art.

He is good at both, but probably enjoys Art more although he's certainly not a top artist and more likely to look at doing humanities at university (History, PPE, Philosophy ) than anything creative.

I have been pushing Latin as it's a good opportunity for him and not a lot of state schools offer this. Also, it's the basis of many languages and it helps with broader general knowledge. I admit I am probably reluctant for him not to choose it as I would have loved the opportunity to study it myself!

Also, he's not the most organised child and I'm concerned he won't cope with the homework and deadlines for Art as it's obviously course work heavy. Saying this, his art teacher thinks he will be able to cope

Any thoughts? Would it be beneficial in applying to a top university if he studies Latin at GCSE?

Thanks in advance!

Art is by no means an easy option, but for most children, most of the time, it's good to have a subject that's a bit different. More practical, often more chilled lessons, less "book learning" type homework. It really breaks up the week and gives something to look forward to.

I was always told that Art was an A or E subject. You were either good at it or not.

Personally I'd do Latin, but then I have 2 degrees in classical civilisations

I’d go for Latin. Even many years later I still find it sometimes comes in handy for working out words in other languages or explaining to my DCs the origins of words in English. Plus the history and epic poetry sides are interesting.

What you study at GCSE doesn’t really make much difference to universities. Latin a-level is well respected but it doesn’t hold additional sway over other humanities or
languages for the types of courses you list.

Id be wary of Art. Like music it sounds nice to have a practical subject but unless you’re naturally able at it, it is a LOT of work and not really value add. Latin would have more transferable skills.

I loved Latin at school and have found it fairly useful in quite a few ways. But actually, unless he is a very keen linguist I'd probably go for Art assuming he enjoys it. I think it's good for all children to do something creative or practical as part of the spread and managing the coursework etc will probably be a really good learning experience for him. Better to learn some lessons about managing his workload at GCSE level rather than at university!

Out of interest what do you do? Are you reliant on those degrees?

25 years as an Art teacher and that is just so not true.

What are the school results like for each subject? IME art teachers can be v good at supporting pupils to do well….or not….

No advantage wrt university in study Latin, no. It’s a great subject tho and as others say, will support learning of other languages as well as helping with English (I still think “necessito est” when wondering how to spell necessary).

Will he be doing an MFL as well? If so, then Latin will support that, tho he may think it’s too much language.

Art – well, I agree that a creative subject is a good thing; all my 3 DC did one (catering, drama, PE). But I gather from anecdata that art can be a massive thief of time, so unless you love it, and doing art is your standard way to relax, it may not be the best choice. It involves hours of extra work every week as far as I can gather. I know students who ended up hating it in year 11. I also know some who loved it of course. But they loved it passionately in yr 9.

Is there another creative he might consider – tech, drama, PE, music?

@timetorefresh at the moment I'm a SAHP.

Before that I had a career in HR and Management Consultancy for a big 4. I love classics but it was always going to be my passion not my career.

I'm planning to go back to uni in sept to train to be an antenatal teacher and breastfeeding councillor so massive change of career.

If he has a MFL then Art. If he doesn't then Latin. Or he could choose between History and RS and then do Latin and Art. He can still study both History and RS at A Level without having studied them at GCSE.

My child is doing both. Art is a lot of work, but it has other useful skills, there is quite a lot of research and analysis involved. Latin has language and literature elements. There is a lot of vocab to learn and literature to know very well. It's quite a defined structure so you do know what to expect, at least that's what I am told. My child is enjoying Art more than learning endless vocab quizlets. Art is also over before Easter in GCSE year, freeing up time for the other subjects.

I'd go for Latin but that's me - I can't draw to save my life, whereas I loved Latin at school, had the great good fortune to be able to do Classical Greek as well, and went on to do a Classics degree. Like Twizbe, I didn't directly use the Classics in my working life, but I enjoyed my studies enormously. Classics is a fascinating subject and there are many strands to it - language learning, literature, history, art/architecture, philosophy, religion, mythology, history of science.

My daughter did Art GCSE as a last minute choice. She enjoyed it but didn't do very well. I was surprised by how much work was involved - more than most of her other GCSE subjects.

I think it comes down in the end to which he thinks he will enjoy more. I can't see it making a crucial difference to university applications.

Depends on the child really. If they like disciplined learning, logic, structure, etc, then Latin is a no brainer. If they like more freedom, less testing, and are naturally creative/artistic, more self disciplined, etc., then Art is a no brainer.

I don't understand this. He enjoys art more, yet you're pushing Latin?

My kids school said above all else, do what you enjoy. So, don't be pushing Latin, especially because post of the reason you are is because you wish you'd done it. This is about him and not you.

Sorry, if that sounds off, but I've just done my youngest ones choices and they were all theirs and not mine. Were it down to me, I'd have picked different things, but it wasn't

By the way, I studied Latin, but didn't study art. I wish I'd studied art. My knowledge of Latin has never come in handy at all.

A language and art are going to stimulate quite different parts of the brain so he should pick the one which broadens his horizons: if he doesn't have a language already then pick Latin; if all his subjects are knowledge based then pick art to tap into him creative interpretive side.
FWIW I did Latin O level and in spite of a lifetime using scientific terms and a couple of years living in Italy I really didn't make use of the Latin I'd learned.

I dropped Latin at 13. I did Art at A level and Design at degree.

Its really nice to be able to wander round places and be able to identify the different periods of architecture or art.

Suggest you ask the Latin teacher if they think your DC is good enough at Latin to get a decent grade. Can they learn words off by heart, can they work things out logically, lots of Latin is like working out a puzzle. I would have thought Latin has some relevance to enrich both History and Philosophy in the long term. Will your DC do homework regularly to build up skills, you probably can’t cram for Latin in the last few weeks.
Art can also be a wonderful subject to develop skills and interest in. Get your DC to check out carefully with the art teacher exactly what the GCSE course requires and what he will be spending time doing both in class and at home for his own work (producing a portfolio or something?). How is the Art assessed? What sort of criteria are used? Can he look at examples done by previous GCSE students? It’s probably quite different from the more usual exams for typical written subjects. With subjects like Art or PE, Sometimes the lessons and work at GCSE are nothing like the lessons beforehand- think chatting to friends while producing a no stress piece of artwork at age 13 etc, which might seem relaxing. But much more longer term effort is required to produce GCSE art work and students have to produce their own ideas as well. Ofc if they are willing/able to do this then Art could be a valuable subject for them and there are connections to history and architecture as well. Make sure DC knows what’s involved before making a decision.

It's his choice not yours so he should choose what he prefers

This. Both are fine subjects.

What does he think? It really should be his choice. In regards to managing coursework etc he is going to have to do this in University (if he choses to go) so I would not be discouraging him from a subject because of that.

I'd go for Latin for the same reason. Plus v useful in my history degree.

I have a D in GCSE art so I'd say Latin....

Also, having been a teacher (not Art or Latin!) I would say that Art often had a very large workload, and takes up a much larger chunk of pupils' time than it ought to for a non-core subject.

Does the school offer A level Latin or Classics? Either of those would be good Alevels for the route you think he might go down. Especially if he's potentially got Oxbridge in his sights.

My dd did Art gcse. I was an art teacher. Art didn’t take up much longer than other subjects. If it takes a long time, it’s because of organisation. Lots leave it to the last minute. But if you keep up it’s not a big workload. It’s also quite calming

I don’t think Art is an A or E subject. My DS is pretty good and is on course for a 7, but a lot of the marks are for writing about technique, artist research, preparatory photos and sketches etc. Your DS should check the balance of the syllabus he will study. My DS initially regretted that he chose art over history but is now really happy with the choice as it breaks up the week and he likes the art part (less so the research!)