Sixth form admissions (specifically North London CSG and SMMA)

[Sixthformconfusion]

My newly minted username says it all really. We're finding sixth form admissions, specifically in Camden/Islington, to be a really opaque business. It's so unlike the y7 ones with the common application form and everything was largely transparent and measurable. It's almost like it's a wild west with sixth forms competing to get the easy-to-teach pupils over their existing ones...

DS has been offered a place at St Mary Magdalene Academy in Islington, no required grades, presumably as he's got very high predicted/mocks. However, he has to respond within 10 days.

He'd prefer Camden Girls, but we don't know if we'll be living near enough as it's dependent on which subjects are most oversubscribed.

With sixth form places, can you hold more than one place? What actually happens on GSCE results day? In other words, could you have no place but presuming the pupil does well could end up rocking up anywhere? Or could you be holding three places and you'd just then commit with grades in hand? Ideally he'd like to see if he's offered from Camden and Marylebone and then to go to offers holder days at wherever he's got a place.

Sorry this seems dense of me and him, but it's remarkable how little of this is on the websites.

Yes, you can accept multiple offers (and most people do) . You then decide on GCSE results day which one you want to take up (assuming you've met any conditional offers).

Some students end up with no place on GCSE results day - in this case, you need to ring round and find out where you can get a space. This might well mean you being flexible in your requirement e.g. for subjects or type of qualification, as you'll only be offered subjects/qualifications where there are places.

Do they not use ucas progress? Where we lived they completed the process in November, very similar to university applications. The whole of our county used it

(Including private though you sent a supplement firm too)

Thank you so much for your replies. I'm surprised that you can accept more than one like this - must be a nightmare job on the 24 August. It wouldn't surprise me if there might be a condition to this particular Mags offer that means it has to be exclusive - you also have to send a deposit for library books! An amount that might be difficult for lower income families.

Like I say, it's almost as if sixth forms are cherry picking the pupils who might be well supported and get good results.

I believe they each have their own admissions forms and process. Though even if there was a county/borough wide type admission, it might not help (unless there was a pan-london admission round) as these three schools are all in different London boroughs (Camden, Islington, Westminster).
Following OP. I've noticed that schools like CSG don't seem to publish anything useful to tell you whether you have a chance of a place or not based on previous years' data. Maybe that's because it varies a lot from year to year and subject to subject? But surely seeing some kind, any kind, of data would be helpful.

Yes indeed re. previous distances at Camden. A friend says she reckons it's rigged so they can say it's based on distances but in reality they can always argue that it was that particular combination of A levels that got a child in Hampstead a place over the child in Archway.

The y7 admissions seems to work across boroughs so one could work at sixth form. Some sort of UCAS style firm and insurance choice perhaps?

Do you know when CSG typically make their offers? I think I remember something about the end of March but again there's nothing on the website?

I’m confused. Are you saying that the Mags offer depends on paying money to the school? That doesn’t sound right. In fact it sounds very similar to what happened at CSG. The Schools Adjudicator made CSG change their sixth form admission policy.

I would tend to agree with your friend. No evidence but just cynical!

Dd has had a similar offer from SMMA - on the basis of high predicted grades - lowering requirements to get in. The £50 library deposit is returned if you don’t take up the offer. We are waiting for the Marylebone and Camden results come out. DD will accept all offers and then decide when results come out.

I’d say schools are cherry picking for sixth form, but I guess this is a completely different process now at sixth form and all schools seem to do it.

So the school are requiring £50 as part of the admissions process? I’m sure they would argue that requiring money as part of admissions, holding it for months and returning it eventually does not go against the Admissions Code. I’m pretty sure they’d be wrong.

if you want the previous distances offered for all CSG A levels you could try contacting the school. Do it through Whatdotheyknowamd the link information will be easily available to others.

Hello all posters and anyone following this thread. Finding sixth form entry a complete and utter nightmare. Why did nobody tell me it was going to be this hard? It is completely opaque, utterly impossible, a cruel Wild West. I feel like my daughter and I have stepped through a looking glass into a dark world where nobody wants her, where I can’t make it work at all! We had three schools lined up, all have turned her down, her existing school which she hates is the only place she has a place. My daughter is super bright (but doesn’t revise with any enthusiasm) and got 3x 8s, 4x 7s and 2x 6s. Everywhere has turned her down ffs! She was in hysterical tears tonight crying that she’s a failure. My heart is bleeding and I feel I’ve messed it all up. We didn’t really realise how organised and strategic you had to be during that TINY window last autumn, we didn’t get conditional places. Now we are left with almost nothing. Writing a long letter to the Secretary of State for education about my experience!!! Shocking, harsh, traumatic. Please let me know if you are in a similar situation or if you have any advice please.

Hi barefoot, are you in the same part of North London as the original poster of this thread back in February. There are still students and parents trying to navigate the system and sort out places. I thought a lot of the colleges/sixth forms my DS1 applied to were quite selective but I think your daughter's overall grades would meet all of them for 3 A levels and all but one for 4, though there are some additional subject specific requirements/preferences.

Was your daughter turned down at initial application or results day?
Are the applications state or private?
Were the 7s or 8s for the subjects she wanted to do, or did she miss a specified grade?
Assuming you're in north London, are you within travelling distance of any of these options:
City & Islington Sixth form, near Angel (DS's offer required 7 GCSEs at 7 or above, 7 in most subjects applied for, only subject which requires more than 7 that he applied for is Further Maths and I can't see that any others do on the website.
Alexandra Park Sixth Form, Muswell Hill - 7 at 7 or 8 (as well ass one the 2 6s) is slightly over most offers
Woodhouse College in North Finchley requires an average of 6 for 3 A levels and I think it's 7s for most specific subjects, and a friend's son managed to get in a few years ago to do Art, History and something else having missed the original wanted History grade of a 7. He also got offered something at Highgate Woods in Crouch End.

This is the latest GCSE year support thread from just before results day onwards - we're in a wide range of situations but there are other mums who are still trying to help their DCs navigate choices for this year:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4879586-gcse-support-the-results-are-in?page=5&reply=128808104

And by the way, I think your daughter has done really well with those grades and as students holding several possibilities settle on one, there will be places to fill.

I think your existing school should ah e advised you better if you had no conditional places. You could also look at some secondaries that have sixth forms in LAs next to you if you are having trouble. There are some good ones in Hackney - depends where you are located.

Hi people, thanks for replying. Thank you for all that info re north London. I think it’s a bit long a commute, but at this moment would consider it. There was a lot I didn’t say. We are in Ealing, West London. I dropped the ball in autumn because my DD wanted to apply to St Paul’s Girls and Westminster. Her mocks looked pretty good and I had no idea of the standard required. She’d had no tutoring and of course got refused for both. I spent a LOT of time then applying for bursaries (that was my education - a bursary girl at Putney High School - I’d wrongly assumed a bright girl could make it into a school like that!) instead of plotting plan B, C and D at that time, and I’m a single mum, so also busy working and keeping the wheels on, we didn’t get applications in to the schools we liked - West London Free School for one. Twyford refused her then because she had a predicted 6 in maths. (I didn’t look up the requirements! Dur - again probably rushing and hadn’t read it) Laytmer was a late application - we didn’t originally apply there. So Twyford, Latymer and WLFS all turned her down. Extraordinarily Latymer phoned to offer us a fee paying place yesterday and then half an hour phoned to say her grades aren’t good enough for an interview!!! I was RAGING!! My DD was in floods of tears last night, the effect of all this on her confidence and self esteem has been profound. Will write today to Twyford explaining in a letter how we’ve had a very chaotic few years with a house move and I’ve had breast cancer. She was predicted mainly 9s in her SATS at primary school. DD went to her existing school (local comp) in the middle of lockdown (and I also would like to have her evaluated for ADHD, but I haven’t written that anywhere) She has had some health issues that have affected her attendance. That’s all in her report and I think it may have put Latymer off from offering us an interview? I’m shaking now, At 8 am, can’t actually handle all this stress and seeing what it’s doing to my DD.

Thank you X

@imip yes her school did nothing, but they want to hand onto their bright kids right?!

@barefoot - have you tried reapplying to the schools your DD wanted (but didn’t receive conditional offers for in the Autumn) with grades in hand? That is a really good set of grades. Most schools say if you do not receive a conditional offer originally but then meet their grade expectations you can reapply when the results are out.

Has anyone heard from Camden yet? My DS has met the grades and completed enrolment last Thursday but because of the number of people trying to get online at the same time the website kept crashing. I hope it went through ok. The deadline is tomorrow so maybe they are waiting until after the deadline to communicate about the first day, etc. Am just a bit nervous because of the technical difficulties around enrolment. Maybe I’ll give them a call.

@LSSOaudition we’ve been refused places at all three schools. We are trying to get in touch but they don’t make it easy. All are completely oversubscribed. I realise I probably need to be on a chat about west london schools, not this one!

@barefoot - am not familiar with schools in west London and I know it’s competitive but I can’t believe she is struggling to find a place with those grades. If she really doesn’t want to stay at her current school, I would make a list of all schools in reasonable travel distance in any borough which offer the subjects she wants and hit the phones.

@LSSOaudition Thank you. The problem is going to a school she hasn't visited - we haven't had a chance to get a feel of what it's like there. She fell in love with St Pauls Girls and has always compared all schools to it!! I have tried gently to explain that's not realistic. She's really sensitive and became so tense and haunted at her old school after friendships fell apart ( which is the only place that we have a place at right now) I really can't face sending her back there. Is it better to go to the school / call / email / write? All the desirable schools (and there are lots of really undesirable ones) are completely oversubscribed. I talked just now to the woman at St Pauls and she was sympathetic but it's so so oversubscribed and high fallutin! I honestly don't know where to start with ringing round!

Is it possible that her old friends from her current school are moving on so even if she stayed it could be like a new start for her? Are her A-level choices very niche subjects offered by only a few schools? If not then obviously your potential list is going to be wider. I think I would try calling as opposed to emailing because for those which are full you can just cross them off immediately and move on instead of hanging around waiting to hear back. Some of them may direct you to an online form if they still have unallocated spaces. Good luck!

@LSSOaudition no they are not niche at all and that's part of the problem. She wants to do Chemistry, Biology, Psychology and art. She has the grades to do all of those except art at the highly academic oversubscribed school yes, so we put down Bio, chemistry and photography, which is not actually ideal. My head is about to explode and it's only 10 am!

Have you tried NHEH?

@ignoreignoreignore we looked at it back in the autumn and were told that I didn't qualify for a bursary (I's complicated, I had to hold onto my old house in Gloucester to get the mortgage for my London place and now have two houses, it disqualifies me from applying for a bursary) I'm a broke single mum with a tiny self employed income yet that makes it an impossibility.