Livid

[threesixnine]

So my Yr 11 daughter has come home today. The school has decided to no longer have a Head Boy and Head Girl and instead 2 'Head Pupils'
Today the winners were announced.

Yep you guessed it. 2 Head Boys

I am flipping fuming. She's in sixth form next year and said what's the point of even running for it.

They have probably done it to be 'gender neutral' and avoid an issue of would they choose a trans pupil to represent their sex or their self id gender.

Which of course would lead to an interesting discusssion: if you were say to pick a transgirl as head girl then you are saying the best girl is a biological boy, whereas if you were to pick a transgirl as head boy, then you are saying the best boy doesn't even want to be one.

It's like the Brits. Well meaning but probably misguided.

yes, right, this is totally going to happen. And these girls will go on to win the Brit awards in a few years time.

I wouldn’t worry at all. I would assume the boys were the best candidates - is there a reason you don’t think these boys were the best candidates Op? Was it a democratic pupil vote?

That's the problem though.
They either need to make an effort to show that it isn't biased in either direction over time, thus potentially not picking the best 2 one year due to balancing, or they don't, and people say it is unfair.

Over how many years would you expect it to balance out? 2, 4, 6?

I don't think you need the 2 best anyway. The best boy, and the best girl, thus showing the school that role models can come from either sex.
If trans / non binary comes up have a year with a third head pupil.

Quite. I’m astounded at the naivety on this thread. Of course there should be a head boy and head girl. Let’s have some real world solutions for the real world, not pretend we live in some pie in the sky idealistic fantasy realm.

Agree OP. Girls need role models and to see older girls in positions of responsibility and leadership. I would be very vocally complaining about this to the Head and also Chair of Governors, if necessary. They are effectively saying that ALL THE GIRLS are not as good as these boys in all criteria for the posts, astonishing. What has the school been doing for that past six/seven years in educating these children to come to this situation where all their girls are not 'good enough'?

I think taking this in isolation is unhelpful. What other leadership positions are there and how do those look in terms of representation? For example, schools with single-gender houses often have leaders from each house who serve as key mentors & role models. Are school prefects (or the equivalent) balanced? Do sport captains play a strong role? Are there extra-curriculars promoting issues important to girls? A one-year sample with two positions also isn't particularly helpful. If students were gender-neutral in their voting then there was a 25% chance each of two boys or two girls in this first year. It's totally reasonable to ask the school whether there's a time frame for re-evaluating this decision & whether it decreased girls holding school-wide leadership positions, though.

OP, how did your daughter feel about this (without any leading questions or critique from you I hope)?

Having broad representation in student leadership positions, including across genders, is important. And there's absolutely no question that we can't just ignore the effects of gender-stereotypes and discrimination when making these decisions. But there's also value in removing gender-based structures in many cases, so considering the full picture is important.

And there's absolutely no question that we can't just ignore the effects of gender-stereotypes and discrimination when making these decisions. But there's also value in removing gender-based structures in many cases, so considering the full picture is important.

I think the first sentence here is the key. Until females are seen and treated as true equals in society we shouldn't be dismantling things that give them equal visibility and respect.

Look at how easily various institutions abandoned involving women in decisions that impacted them as soon as there was a vocal group pushing the demands of transwomen.

We know girls are subject to sexual harassment in schools. We know in playgrounds boys take up the space and push girls to the edge. We know that somehow subjects leading to better pay like physics are seen as 'boys' subjects in mixed schools. Until all these kinds of things are sorted they shouldn't be 'removing gender based structures'.

This

What an absolute disgrace.

DS’s school did this, this year. Candidates had to do a presentation to SLT. 2 boys chosen. The head of houses (next level down) were mainly girls. The majority of SLT are women.

I think anyone who is happily to naively trot out that ‘maybe the two boys were just the best candidates for the role’ has been living under a rock for their entire life as far as understanding anything about the effect of patriarchal systems goes.

That's how the corporate world works - you don't get a role based on your gender

No, you DO get a role based on your gender - well sex really. That is exactly how sex-based discrimination happens. Was this written by someone who is unaware of what is actually happening in the world? How would you explain the high number of male leaders in our corporations and other structures? Having a head girl is about protecting females from the unconscious bias towards girls and doing away with that role shows that you don't really care about equality.

I would be fuming.

For those that think that those boys were simply the best candidates, do you realise how under represented women are in senior management, politics etc? That there is still a pay gap? Do you also blissfully assume that the men are always the best candidates? 36% of consultant doctors in the NHS are women, are men just more naturally suited to being consultants?

Or maybe, just maybe does it all start with having good examples of female leadership from a young age, from having the opportunity to lead, to have role models, to see women in roles that you might aspire to yourself?

If my DC school did this I would be writing to the head and the Board of Governors.

I actually can't believe that people are saying 'well they were probably the best candidates'.

As an example of why a example from 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Crisdo Perez;

For the most of the 20th century the New York Philharmonic Orchestra had no female musicians. This changed from the 1970s because following a lawsuit blind auditions were introduced. Today the number of female musicians is over 45%.

Bias towards men, the assumption that they are better, continues at big detriment to , especially, our young women.

Besides, they were 'better'? 'Better' at what exactly? If you needed 2 head if 'rugby' at your local club - presumably as men are bigger, stronger etc you would say both should be men but clearly this is ridiculous, you'd have a woman and a man - both having more understanding and championing their own sex.

yanbu

Ah not in that section but sentiment applies

It's not gender, which is a social construct; but sex, which is biological and immutable.

All these posters assuming the boys were the best candidates. Why do you think it is that boys (and men) end up in leadership positions? Do you think they are objectively the best? Or do you think maybe possibly "manly" attributes are seen as more leader-like and so even girls (conditioned into this way of thinking) are more likely to vote for them?
I'd be cross too OP. There's a reason why so many schools adopted the head boy/ head girl model and it wasn't because both sexes were equally represented.

Exactly. What attributes are they assigning as the best if only the boys exhibit them? And if they are attributes the girls could be expected to display but aren't, why the fuck not? What have the school been doing for the last few years?

I hate the head girl/head boy thing anyway. Smacks of perpetuating superiority.

Yup.

So frustrating - if it is to do with gender identity then it is an completely disproportionate reaction that surprise suprise ends up benefiting boys more than it does trans kids.
If they are worried about being inclusive, all they need to do is say they will select 1 child of Male sex, one of female sex, and those selected can choose to call themselves head boy, head girl or head pupil. Problem solved. I would be complaining if I were in your shoes.

You clearly don't know much about the corporate world. It is surprising how often the best person for the job happens to be male.

The number of women on company boards is rising, but they make up less than 15% of executive directors (i.e. directors who work for the business full time). Most female directors are non-executives, often recruited to make the board look more balanced, i.e. because they are women.