Is it really any point, be honest....

[Bitteplease]

....to choose to do an EPQ at A-level?

Like many other schools, DD's ask students to pick 3 A-levels and then either FM or an EPQ.

Anyone here who has been through it, - what would be the better qualification? She's into the sciences/maths but loves, loves reading and writing so it's difficult to choose between them.

I have read that you get in on slightly lower grades at some unis if you have a good grade in the EPQ (and how likely are you to get that top grade?)?

But, equally, some courses seem to like a FM, but I wonder whether it's fiendieshly hard and even though she' very good at maths, maybe you need to be genius-level to get an A*/A in FM?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

(PS, we're at a very oversubscribed comp, not sure that makes a difference but just in case, for context)

well, does she have to decide now? how about try FM, then switch if it isn't working out?

You mean switch from FM to an EPQ? Can you do that? I have no idea when you need to submit the EPQ, but presumably you need to present a topic at some point?

ask? I think a lot of people start FM then switch over if it doesn't work out

What is she likely to get in Maths GCSE?

For FM, she really needs to be getting 8 or 9. Preferably 9! It's hard.

In terms of university admissions there are a small number of courses at the most competitive universities where having studied FM is a requirement or so advantageous to actually studying the course that it would be foolish not to have done.
Beyond those courses an EPQ would be more valuable preparation for university as to be successful at EPQ students need to pick a suitable topic that interests them and be sufficently motivated to keep working at it by themselves. There are some universities, Bath for example that make students two offers, a lower A-level grade requirement if a student gets an A or A* in their EPQ. (Equally there are some course at Bath that require FM).

Always been doing well, on for a 9 hopefully. Although she's very good at it she's not one of those pi-quoting, ridiculously clever problem solvers, if you know what I mean?

Helpful, thanks. Do you know if there are many other universities that would make a lower offer for a top grade in the EPQ?

Great idea.

Although you need to be on target for a 9 at GCSE to think of choosing FM you don't need to be any better at maths than that. Most people that do FM get a very good grade in it, but very few of them are geniuses. If you learn maths easily, it's no more difficult than any other subject (and if you learn maths easily the regular maths A-Level is much less effort than other subjects).

Just spoken to a student who has recieved an offer at Exeter that is lower when he does well in his EPQ. It is not universal, one has to look at each universities website. The other thing to consider is if a university has to pick between two students with similar profiles they would probably choose the one with EPQ.

DD does EPQ and some of her university choices accept it as an A-level. She's been predicted an A. Her first choice uni doesn't accept it though. It really depends what your DD might want to do. Mine had no interest in taking maths further than GCSE but at her school all students do EPQ regardless of other A-levels.

FM will have far more long term benefit than an EPQ if your daughter is inclined towards studying something maths-related at university.

My son switched from a comprehensive to a grammar school at sixth form, where he did maths and further maths. The school didn't offer EPQs, but did have a week in the summer term of year 12 where they could either do work experience or pursue a project. My son did the project, and it was enough to give him something to write about on his personal statement. He got into a top uni to do a course with a lot of mathematical content, where he would be disadvantaged if he didn't have FM. My point is that there are multiple other ways to demonstrate 'EPQ skills' but Further Maths is uniquely valuable. Further Maths students who go on to study numerical degrees are part of an elite, inpressive group that are sought after employees. In contrast, nobody will ever say "that's impressive' if you tell them you have an EPQ. (You might be able to impress them by telling them about what you did for the EPQ, if its interesting, but the EPQ qualification itself is not of great value).

Thanks, some very useful, constructive advice on here

My DS did an EPQ and got an A*, Brimingham uni offered a reduced grade to study Law on the basis of that EPQ.

His classmate had a grade drop offer from Exeter to study PPE with an A8 EPQ also.

That's interesting. Thanks. Also heard others who have said it's best just to go for 3 A-levels to ace those as unis only really look at 3 (though acknowledging that some look for FM for certain courses).

A couple of additional observations might be helpful, @Bitteplease.

Several A-levels have NEA elements (depending on exam board) and that provides an opportunity to research and report within an A-level. My DC did Further Maths, but also each did an A-level with an NEA and liked the balance that provided.

Further Maths is demanding but my DC actually 'grew into it' during Y12 having actually not been in the top maths sets for GCSE and not regarded as really strong at Maths. They took to the logic/pure side, which is less in evidence at GCSE; so that is a factor that can work for or against a particular student.

They also found that Further Maths was very wide ranging. They did units on algorithms, which made them comfortable with the maths side of computer science, even though they did not take CS A-level. Further Maths obviously supported their Maths A-level and, for one DC, was helpful in supporting Chemistry A-level; so there are 'cross-subject' benefits.

As with many questions posed on these education threads, this is rarely a single right or wrong path; much depends on individual circumstances. However, I hope the above helps.

Very good points, thanks for your observations :)