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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Someone please talk me down about my DDs start at secondary

26 replies

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:24

My dd1 started secondary school in September, she has just turned 12. At primary school she was a very hard worker and although not super academic, was a consistently high achiever and achieved expected in her SATS and exceeding for English.

I was very concerned about her starting secondary as I have/had some prejudices around large mixed comps (I went to a small single sex school) and was worried she would slip below the radar as a somewhat 'steady eddy' and wouldn't be pushed.

Now I'm worried this is coming to pass. I should add that she has become incredibly lazy and would want to sit about on TikTok all day if she didn't do 10 hours a week of an extra curricular activity (she has a gift, that her school have no idea about as she refuses to join any school club, despite there being a club for her talent).

The school have now set the pupils for both English and maths. English, she was 2 marks away from top set but was happy enough (she likes English) but maths she is now bottom set.

I feel so guilty that I'm personally upset by this as it's come out of the blue. She had some poor assessments. How can she have fallen so quickly and spectacularly? Her primary always said that she lacked confidence in maths but could do it and I was always pleased that she was stronger than I ever was in maths (I have dyscalculia, diagnosed when I did my PGCE).

I'm now panicking and frustrated with her for what I perceive is laziness and also dumbing herself down? She keeps calling herself a dumbo, a thicko?! My heart is breaking for her although I'm trying really hard not to let it show to her. I'm considering a tutor even though we can barely afford one.

Please someone that has been through this advise or reassure me that all is not lost!

OP posts:

LucyWhipple · 23/01/2023 12:30

Ah I’m sorry OP. I have all the same concerns about my dd starting at secondary later this year. They’re just huge and understandably the middle of the road kids won’t be all that visible.

I would definitely look at a tutor for the maths or at least doing extra at home with her yourself. Also talking to her from tutor & maths teacher to see what to focus on. I would not want my dd in bottom sets as there will be more behaviour disruptions there than in top sets (as a generalisation) so I’d be working hard on getting her to move up quickly.

PrinceHaz · 23/01/2023 12:31

If she is the sort of child to do as you ask her you could set her Maths yourself The Corbett Maths website is free and has lots of good resources. Their 5 a day questions are great and go from Primary to GCSE. You can see the answers and teachers workings so you may even be able to help her. Be consistent with it.
corbettmaths.com/5-a-day/

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:33

Thank you, I did email her original maths teacher and explained that it was a shock, she stated the reasons why she was set as such and said that she would speak to her new teacher to let him know that she will be working towards moving up.
I also have huge concerns about behaviour in the class, although it should be noted that behaviour at the school is generally very good, thank God!

I couldn't tutor her myself as my own maths level is very low and I would not be able to access most of the work anymore (I did manage a C at GCSE through lots of hard work and I've forgotten how to do things now, I have very poor conceptual knowledge of maths).

OP posts:

PrinceHaz · 23/01/2023 12:34

The bottom Maths set isn’t the end of the world. Bottom middle will be larger with potentially more behaviour issues.

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:34

PrinceHaz · 23/01/2023 12:31

Thank you! She does this Sparx maths thing as well? She's been fine with the questions there.

OP posts:

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:35

She's set 4 of 4, the year group is put into two halves, so I guess she's bottom quarter of her whole year, makes it sound less awful.

OP posts:

PrinceHaz · 23/01/2023 12:36

Do you have another family briber who could work with her? A tutor is a great expense when there could be ways around using one.

PeekAtYou · 23/01/2023 12:37

Sets can change in secondary school.

How many sets are there? Ime there is little difference in set 1 and set 2 if there are lots of sets. Both sets had kids aiming for grade 7-9 for GCSE.

I would get her some help with maths though. She doesn't have to he'll be top set but not getting a pass will be severely limiting and as she's currently in year 7, there is time to help her confidence in maths.

Singleandproud · 23/01/2023 12:38

Are you sure that the groups are set by ability? They aren't always. Although in a school I previously worked in maths sets changed half termly depending on how students did on their end of unit test so could go from 2 to 4 to 1 which didn't make much sense to me if you just happened to not be great (or to have been absent) when one particular aspect of maths was covered.

Sometimes students get put in the wrong group by admin error, mistaken identity, two students with the same name but perhaps don't have photos on the system yet.

Contact the school, say that you are concerned with the group change as previously DD always performed well in maths, ask if there is anything in particular that she needs support in. Bring it to their attention but in a supportive way. They might turn around and say "Well, she spends all lesson chatting to X and not completing the work and performed poorly in her test." or "we noticed she seemed shy and didn't want to talk infront of a large class so moved her into a smaller one to build her confidence".

Singleandproud · 23/01/2023 12:40

Also I wouldn't get any family members to tutor her unless they have very recently left school, techniques used in class are completely different to when I was at school.

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:42

Thanks everyone, it's definitely set by ability and I did ask her previous teacher who explained it was based on poor results of two of the three assessments she had done so far.

It's set 4, there are 2 of each set in the year group. It goes from set 1 to 4.

OP posts:

musicexport · 23/01/2023 12:44

OP...it may well be just that she's just more creative than analytical and is always going to excel in the subjects she's naturally good at. Obviously she's going to need a foundational understanding of maths but if she is doing well in the creative subjects, encourage that.

For context I was in the top set in English at secondary and one rung off the bottom set in maths and science. I had to resit my maths GCSE as I failed first time round. My GCSE results were As in English and other creative subjects and dismal Ds in other things. My A level subjects reflected the things I truly loved to do and I went on to get a 2:1 degree at a Russell Group Uni. I have a good, well-paying career.

I'm still crap at maths!

Point being is that yes, encourage her in the subjects she's struggling in but really encourage her to throw herself into the things she's naturally good at. 😊

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 23/01/2023 12:49

Many years ago I was a Secondary Modern child, learned little at school and failed maths. A few years later, bored with secretarial work, I went to a technical college and did A levels. I did very well, went to a great university, also have a Masters and two professional qualifications. I was a lazy kid with poor teachers, but it is always possible to come back from a poor education.

PuttingDownRoots · 23/01/2023 12:50

How does she feel about the assessments. Was she surprised by low marks, or is she not understanding the topic?

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:54

Thank you @musicexport I should also be a case study, I was bottom set maths and top set English, got As at A level in my fave subjects and have three degrees and lots of letters after my name!

She is excelling in music particularly (achieving the highest grade? The school calls it exceptional) and her recent report said her attitude to learning was either good or exceptional in all her lessons. I need to get over myself!

OP posts:

Spudina · 23/01/2023 12:59

This happened to me on school and it sucked. I wasn’t struggling but got put in the bottom set (with the real problem kids). The next year they moved me up a set but when it came to GCSEs I was put in the exam where I could only get a C grade (which I got). If you want her to sit higher maths, you need to be getting her out of that set ASAP. The free resources other PP have suggested look good.

sianiboo · 23/01/2023 13:10

When it comes to the Maths, I'd leave her where she is, don't put any pressure on her to move 'up'.

I started at a private all girls school when I was 13 ... all pupils were interviewed by the headmistress, along with their parents, prior to being accepted. I'd always been poor at Maths (like yourself, I was diagnosed with dyscalculia as an adult), but in everything else was ahead - that's not bragging, we moved from the UK back to Australia and the Australian curriculum was different, behind in quite a few subjects.

The headmistress was giving me a grilling on my grades etc from the UK, what set I'd been in when I left, etc...all was okay until she got to Maths. I was about to admit that frankly I was crap, when my mother leapt in and basically lied her head off to the headmistress, saying I was in the top set, doing advanced maths...all the time glaring at me, making it pretty obvious if I didn't agree I'd be in big trouble! So I was put in the 'top' set/classes for all subjects.

The next 4 months I was at that school was utterly hell. I couldn't cope with the Maths at all, they were all doing advanced algebra - we hadn't even started on that when I left the UK! I was too embarrassed to admit to the teacher I hadn't a clue. 'Luckily' I got a major ear infection and ended up missing a good two months of school...we moved yet again less than a month after I went back.

My mother basically threw me under the bus, made me have months of worry and hell at school because she was too busy showing off what a great parent (ha) she was. It was all about how she felt about it, not how to actually help me.

I agree with your remark in your last post - you do need to 'get over yourself'. Being shit at Maths is not the end of the world.

Uninterestedfamily · 23/01/2023 13:19

Workload gear's up at secondary, with lots of homework. You say she is being lazy, but could she be struggling with the school day, plus homework, plus 10 hours a week (that's a lot) on her out of school activity?

Original poster

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 13:52

She has texted me to say it was the easiest maths ever- she's just had her first lesson in the new set. That should help her confidence!

OP posts:

justanotherdaduser · 23/01/2023 16:48

Good advice here about resources.

Dr Frost website (www.drfrostmaths.com) is very good too. You can logon as a parent and take a look around first to see if it suits?

Also take a look at the Khan Academy website (free online video tutorials). The content is US focused, but maths is maths, and their videos are good. My DD when in year 6 often used to go there for specific topics (like ratios, percentages etc)
[This is a good starting point : www.khanacademy.org/math/get-ready-courses]

One-to-one tutoring, maybe for a couple of months to lift her level up, will definitely help, but khan academy is worth a look first, especially if are able to motivate her to manage and plan some of this herself.

musicexport · 23/01/2023 18:43

ILookAtTheFloor · 23/01/2023 12:54

Thank you @musicexport I should also be a case study, I was bottom set maths and top set English, got As at A level in my fave subjects and have three degrees and lots of letters after my name!

@ILookAtTheFloor That's amazing! She sounds like she's doing just fine. You can't be good at everything. 😊

snowtrees · 23/01/2023 20:18

I'd book a call with the teacher. Ask her what you can do to help her. Ask them what on line maths tools they use. Get her to do a little & often.
Ensure she knows the basics like times tables as a lot don't. At our school the sets are quite fluid in Yr7

Anothernameanother · 23/01/2023 20:33

If she says it's the easiest lesson ever, can you ask her to teach you? I mean, you may well know yourself, but teaching someone else is one of the best ways of really consolidating learning. Plus it should boost her confidence and help you to know what she's learning.

shalimkhan · 26/01/2023 11:16

Hi, I'm a maths tutor, and I use the Corbetmaths 5-a-day worksheets all the time. They are an incredibly useful resource if used correctly.

Shalim

shalimkhan · 26/01/2023 11:17

Also check out NumberTraining.com to help with the basics.

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