London secondaries - Best History/Philosophy

[SameBoat2022]

It might sound weird, but I am a little worried about the limited scope of History and Philosophy teaching in London secondaries - including the top ones.

History is mostly limited to British random facts and taught in modules rather than chronologically. Milestones like the collapse of the Roman Empire or even the French Revolution seem neglected. Philosophy is taught sparsely and, again, not methodically. I'd find difficult to connect the dots and consolidate the foundation necessary to understand not only politics but even arts and literature. Debate classes would not cut it... Are there exceptions to this?

Thanks

If you are referring to state schools then surely they would have to follow the national curriculum and whatever is on the GCSE/A-Level syllabus.
So I don't know how different individual schools would be.

Maybe some academies and private

You should visit some of the top private schools and discuss this with the Head of History / Philosophy at the open days. I guess the state schools have to follow the national curriculum, private schools don't have to in theory but then are very much bound by GCSE requirements as well. Highly selective schools can afford to go above and beyond and sideways though as they are usually confident that the children can be prepared for GCSE requirements closer to the exam.

King's College Wimbledon design their own curriculum to my knowledge. We asked this question at every school we visited, I remember the one that stood out was KGS as they also made sure in Year 7&8 the children get an overview of world history from early times to more recent times rather than jumping from Tudors to and the like. I would imagine the likes of Westminster / St Paul's also design it more freely. I would assume that the higher performing they are, the more likely they are going to have a more interesting humanities curriculum, but I would just speak with the department heads, as they are always available on the 11+ / 13+ open days.

Past year 8 all schools have to have covered the Second World War/holocaust and then get ready for the gcse curriculum. The French Revolution is an A level option. The teaching of all subjects in the U.K. is very narrow with choices being made when the dc are aged 14/15, private schools have little scope for going beyond the curriculum after year 9.
Teddies in Oxford tried to introduce their own year 11 qualifications but they weren't recognised by UCAS so were dropped. University admissions are driven by stats including GCSE results.

I am pretty sure some schools do it, but probably not often talked about much during open day events etc where people typically disucss other things, pastoral care, sports etc instead of syllabus.

My DD's small London indie girls school has a department designed history curriculum for year 7 (and part of year 8) when they study world history starting from prehistory, advent of agriculture and civilisation, development of hierarchies in society and so on. The syllabus broadly follows the chronology of Harari's Homo Sapiens (though of course the content is school designed). They also have a custom designed philosophy and history of art curriculum, but I didn't really speak to the department members so don't have much details on those.

At some point in year 8 they start converging to th national curriculum.

I remember a NLCS (another London girls indie) open day when a history teacher discussed something similar they do too.

Point is, if a small London indie is doing this, chances are other larger schools with more resources probably are too. It's just not discussed much on open days because parents usually are concerned about others things at the time, so it usually doesn't come up maybe?

Thanks everyone.

We are still waiting for 11plus offers and this would be a decisive factor for me. But top top schools like NLCS are out of reach…

DD's state school (grammar) in SE London do a good range of these subjects at A level and have a head of PPE to encourage students to explore them and students often do one term of the subject in Y10 or 11 but not as a GCSE but it gives them a good flavour of whether they might want to study it at A Level, DD did Classical Civilisation one lesson a week for a term in Y10 and loved it so much she chose it at A level but otherwise wouldn't have thought to do it. Other subjects they can do are Philosophy, Statistics, Economics etc. They have statistics as a twilight GCSE done off timetable.

As I am a history nerd I am very disappointed about the curriculum as I see it as quite narrow.

SE London secondary:
Focus is on Britain history in KS3, all the way from Battle of Hastings to the collaps of the British Empire.
They also offer enrichment courses, covering Ancient History, Medival Europe and Spanish, French and German are briefly covered also by the language topics.

KS4: America from beginning of the 20th century until WWII, Germany from 1871 to the collaps of the Third Reich, Elizabethan Golden Age, History of Medicine

KS5: her school does USA under Regan and History of South Africa, coursework is Russian Revolution

So covering three out of five continents and 2000+ (define ancient?) years is considered narrow? DD has done history from GSCE to A level (Russia, Immigration, USA, Stuarts etc) and one skill has been in understanding the sources and how they change over time, which can then be applied to any era. To get an A star is really tough and they have to know a lot of context, sources, key figures, dates, political backdrop, timelines and soooooo much more.

I did history at GCSE in the late 80s annd A level anleay 90s and what DD does is far more in-depth and at the same time more wide-reaching than I ever did.

The issue is that in most state schools pupils can choose between history and geography from Y10 onwards. All the great teaching from KS4 onwards is not happening for those who don't continue history beyond Y9.

And that means most are stuck with a narrow view of British Isle history with some colonialism thrown into it and that is then very much muddled up depending how the teacher feels about the subject.

Obviously a country always puts its own historty at the center of teaching but leaving the global history of the early 20th century out and hence not teaching why we ended up with two wars, a depression and the Cold War gives a narrow view of how we live today.

I could go on on most subjects which become optional in the majority of state schools from Y10 onwards.

Can I ask which school this is please? thank you!

I'm not sure how you expect schools to cover everything that has happened on these islands for the past 2000 years in depth, plus key events of European History, plus decolonizing the curriculum so looking outside the UK. All on about an hour to 90 mins a week.

The reason why it seems random at KS3 is because History is no longer about remembering a string of dates, it's about practicing the skills that are required at KS4, 5 and beyond. So it might seem random that a class is learning about the Montgomery Bus Boycott but they look at the significance of that event and then develop written skills evaluating its significance in comparison with other events of the American Civil Rights movement. Then they will also need to develop the skills of source evaluation, explanation of causation etc.

History teaching is more about teaching children HOW to think than what to think.

Exactly @GeorgeSpeaks DD learnt how to see the perspective of reporting as time evolved. Maybe one point in history but different eras reported and recorded differently, very important to understand.

Clarification- different eras / times / generations reported the same moment in history differently.

I know my DDs indie school’s history department is really well liked and has designed their own curriculum to make history more engaging. I think my DD mentioned studying the case of Jack the Ripper in Year 8 or 9 to teach them about interpretations and sources. I also remember her telling me she’s jealous of the module on protest and terrorism they’ve started teaching pre-GCSE. I’m probably getting a very positive view of the department as my DD is a history nut (like me) and used to give presentations for their history society. Philosophy wise I’m less informed as she didn’t take it for GCSE.