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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

SW London Private & Grammar: applying for year 7 in 2023

998 replies

QuiteAJourney · 19/01/2023 13:40

Following up from
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4716365-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-iii?page=40

Sharing the journey

OP posts:
Pleasegrowmore · 27/01/2023 11:50

On general admissions process chat..

i thought WHS was terrible. Long queues, impersonal treatment, tests sounded chaotic and unnecessarily time pressured plus some seemed to start earlier than others. And for those of us applying for bursary that system also rubbish, and I think it’s appalling that they talk the talk about getting kids from diverse (financial) backgrounds but won’t waive the £150 fee for the honour of sitting the exam unless you are on universal credit. How many kids on universal credit would even sit that exam (especially given their stinginess wjth bursaries)

SPGS on other hand waive fee entirely if you apply bursary-only, were extremely helpful with questions on that process, and also were massively helpful for DD who needed some minor arrangements for the exams due to a health issue.

SamPoodle123 · 27/01/2023 12:26

QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 11:48

Agree that DD's feeling is the most important. As for parents, I am fine not being treated warmly, just taken issue with brusque (WHS, in my experience) and, to a lesser degree, lack of / poor Comms

Show quote history

Yes, true. But I always feel like Mama know best :)

Lolakath19 · 27/01/2023 12:29

@Sampoodle123 Agree with you. At the end of the process it should be the adult decision and not the child's one. Not only because you know better or you won t be fooled / attracted by the yumminess of the cookies or the friendlyness of one teacher/ students but also because if in the future your family start to realise it was not a good choice, you don t want that to fall on your kids shoulders. You have to take the responsibility for it.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 12:30

SamPoodle123 · 27/01/2023 12:26

Yes, true. But I always feel like Mama know best :)

Show quote history

Let's call it (and aim for) a "meeting of minds" 😉

OP posts:
SamPoodle123 · 27/01/2023 12:44

Lolakath19 · 27/01/2023 12:29

@Sampoodle123 Agree with you. At the end of the process it should be the adult decision and not the child's one. Not only because you know better or you won t be fooled / attracted by the yumminess of the cookies or the friendlyness of one teacher/ students but also because if in the future your family start to realise it was not a good choice, you don t want that to fall on your kids shoulders. You have to take the responsibility for it.

Yes, exactly. That is a good point. We explained to my dd that if she is lucky enough to get more then one offer, we will decide as a family. I am really nervous about making the right decision for her. But of course, will consider what she wants as well. The good thing is, she likes all the schools anyway, so at least that is a good start :)

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 13:08

SamPoodle123 · 27/01/2023 12:44

Yes, exactly. That is a good point. We explained to my dd that if she is lucky enough to get more then one offer, we will decide as a family. I am really nervous about making the right decision for her. But of course, will consider what she wants as well. The good thing is, she likes all the schools anyway, so at least that is a good start :)

Show quote history

We are exactly in the same place - family decision, with DD's preferences clearly factored in (but made easier that every school she is in the running for is, at least, a 7 out of 10 - bless her accommodating nature!)

OP posts:
Firenze12 · 27/01/2023 16:28

This is an interesting discussion. I always thought this would be a family decision and that I would listen to my dd's opinion but having been through the process I will give more weight to my dd's opinion than I thought I might have.

I've been impressed by how aware my daughter has been of marketing gimmicks and how insightful her reasons have been for liking different schools.

Children do well at all of these schools academically but I hope we will be in a position to chose a school where my DD will do well academically but more importantly thrive socially and expand her horizons. Fingers crossed for all of them!

UKUSMum · 27/01/2023 16:55

I agree that the admissions process says a lot about a school. I’ve said already that my DD and I did not like G&L’s ‘you’re one of a thousand just like you desperate to get in’ approach, from tour to exam day to a little bit nicer on interview day. Emails from the Registrar are cold and rude from my American perspective. But I’ve also said on here that this seems to be a universal admissions experience and that everyone I know (n of maybe 7?) says it is totally different being a pupil there - love the school, love the head, love the feel of the place. So I don’t know.

CLSG on the other hand really stands out to us. Lots of lovely touches, including notes from current year 7s, nice emails, guides to the neighbourhood etc. My DD came out with stories about the teachers and generally very happy.

NHEHS has been fine. My daughter, for whatever reason, did not like her interview at all and has a general bad vibe but we don’t see it at all. We actually really like it.

SHHS* has been good - great tour and then the surprise of not getting the interview. But I emailed to ask further info (G&L surely has a higher cut off and I know DD’s reference was great), and got an immediate phone call back to discuss. Quite impressive!

LU was as it seems to be - busy, with expectations that kids who’ll be happy there will be ok with that etc. The teacher who interviewed my DD brought her back to me beaming and was joking with her that she’d been so nervous she’d broken her zipper. She was very peppy after the interview.

SPSG has been fine. Somewhere between CLSG and G&L, but I also expect more of an esoteric vibe from them I think.

FHRP was also good, warm and friendly with teachers milling about chatting with parents while we waited. If it wasn’t for their facilities, it would be much higher on our list because of that.

*by the way, it became clear in this call that they actually welcome parent communicarions (well, not G&L it would seem), but in general they want to know that you’re seriously considering their school and are open to chatting about moving forward with a different outcome than already received. I was very surprised but checked in with other people, and apparently parents or head teachers can actually change outcomes by demonstrating commitment to the school. Might be useful to bear in mind two weeks from today (tho hopefully not).

Our top choice and our daughter’s are not currently aligned. IF we have any choices to make, and if our opinions stay the same (right now I can’t imagine choosing G&L for example but 100% agree that would most likely change if we got a first round offer), we will be guiding DD to what we think is best for sure. (Tho I am afraid of only getting NHEHS bc we liked it a lot but she was so unhappy after interview though for no real reason that she could say.)

PreplexJ · 27/01/2023 17:07

@UKUSMum very nice summary thank you.

During pretest CLSG hands out a post card to parents to advice POIs to lookout in the city while waiting for this kids.. I feel a bit OTT (and waste of money and papers). But yep, hard to strike the right balance..

Daydreamscometrue · 27/01/2023 17:38

I quite like it that some schools keep in touch with various newsletters and updates. I realise that they still have decisions to make but I understand the popularity of many of them and it's a numbers game. DS has enjoyed his interviews at all six of the schools we applied to and I'm grateful to them for making him feel good about himself. Roll on the 10th!

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 18:14

@Daydreamscometrue I think that the schools keeping in touch definitely makes you feel warmer towards them. I still find bemusing that some have been silent for months - a simple acknowledgment of the exam being done (or thanks for taking part in the admissions process) and outline of next steps is all it takes.

OP posts:
Daydreamscometrue · 27/01/2023 18:35

@QuiteAJourney I quite agree. It's definitely made me think twice about schools who have made no contact at all.

anda44 · 27/01/2023 18:58

UKUSMum, hope it's ok to chip in, but just wanted to say that G&L is not an impersonal or snooty school at all. Nowhere is perfect but I never heard a parent of anyone actually in the school complain of that. If there are any issues, I've found the teachers to be great. Really responsive. Any hint of anyone being unkind they are onto it like a shot. Most of the girls are confident, yes, but quietly confident. Of course any school has its 'individuals' but they don't let them run the the show (socially). I have experiences at LU (and a boys school) but I would say these are much less personal schools. Particularly at LU, they are much more hands off and a lot more goes under the radar. It has more of a 'campus' feel than a school.

Ilikelists · 27/01/2023 18:59

UKUSMum · 27/01/2023 16:55

I agree that the admissions process says a lot about a school. I’ve said already that my DD and I did not like G&L’s ‘you’re one of a thousand just like you desperate to get in’ approach, from tour to exam day to a little bit nicer on interview day. Emails from the Registrar are cold and rude from my American perspective. But I’ve also said on here that this seems to be a universal admissions experience and that everyone I know (n of maybe 7?) says it is totally different being a pupil there - love the school, love the head, love the feel of the place. So I don’t know.

CLSG on the other hand really stands out to us. Lots of lovely touches, including notes from current year 7s, nice emails, guides to the neighbourhood etc. My DD came out with stories about the teachers and generally very happy.

NHEHS has been fine. My daughter, for whatever reason, did not like her interview at all and has a general bad vibe but we don’t see it at all. We actually really like it.

SHHS* has been good - great tour and then the surprise of not getting the interview. But I emailed to ask further info (G&L surely has a higher cut off and I know DD’s reference was great), and got an immediate phone call back to discuss. Quite impressive!

LU was as it seems to be - busy, with expectations that kids who’ll be happy there will be ok with that etc. The teacher who interviewed my DD brought her back to me beaming and was joking with her that she’d been so nervous she’d broken her zipper. She was very peppy after the interview.

SPSG has been fine. Somewhere between CLSG and G&L, but I also expect more of an esoteric vibe from them I think.

FHRP was also good, warm and friendly with teachers milling about chatting with parents while we waited. If it wasn’t for their facilities, it would be much higher on our list because of that.

*by the way, it became clear in this call that they actually welcome parent communicarions (well, not G&L it would seem), but in general they want to know that you’re seriously considering their school and are open to chatting about moving forward with a different outcome than already received. I was very surprised but checked in with other people, and apparently parents or head teachers can actually change outcomes by demonstrating commitment to the school. Might be useful to bear in mind two weeks from today (tho hopefully not).

Our top choice and our daughter’s are not currently aligned. IF we have any choices to make, and if our opinions stay the same (right now I can’t imagine choosing G&L for example but 100% agree that would most likely change if we got a first round offer), we will be guiding DD to what we think is best for sure. (Tho I am afraid of only getting NHEHS bc we liked it a lot but she was so unhappy after interview though for no real reason that she could say.)

Interesting about NHEHS, because it is the only interview my dd ended up flat after (and she interviewed at similar schools). My daughter said she could see her scores on the English and Maths questions - 4/5 and 5/5. I thought it was organised well and teachers seemed nice but my daughter left unhappy.

woohooho · 27/01/2023 19:30

anda44 · 27/01/2023 18:58

UKUSMum, hope it's ok to chip in, but just wanted to say that G&L is not an impersonal or snooty school at all. Nowhere is perfect but I never heard a parent of anyone actually in the school complain of that. If there are any issues, I've found the teachers to be great. Really responsive. Any hint of anyone being unkind they are onto it like a shot. Most of the girls are confident, yes, but quietly confident. Of course any school has its 'individuals' but they don't let them run the the show (socially). I have experiences at LU (and a boys school) but I would say these are much less personal schools. Particularly at LU, they are much more hands off and a lot more goes under the radar. It has more of a 'campus' feel than a school.

Also to chip in!
I have DS at LU and they have been great pastorally and socially wise etc for DS. Very quick to respond to any issues etc and his teachers totally 'get' him. I have also heard very positive stuff from some of the parents of girls about pastoral care around eating disorders etc. Would agree that there is probably less 'hand holding' in the early years than in some schools but it's not a bad thing. It's a big busy school.
I also have a DD at WHS and as I've said upthread the admissions process that people have experienced is nothing like how we've found the school once there, like your experience of G&L. The teachers and head are very approachable etc. and we've had pastoral issues ( nothing major) that have been dealt with quickly and appropriately.
Both quite different schools and neither perfect, but both DCs very happy ( most of the time!).
BUT they would probably have been happy at pretty much all the schools mentioned on this thread!

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 19:47

@woohooho Thanks for your comments.
I agree that the admissions process does not necessarily reflect what the school is like, but most of us have had limited direct exposure to the schools in question (open day, admissions process) so it is not surprising that the experience ends up shaping views.
That is why I think it is important to provide feedback to the schools - I think that, with WHS, from what you say and the comments from other mums with DDs there, there is a misalignment between the admissions process and the ethos and 'ways of working' of the school which might put people off.

OP posts:
woohooho · 27/01/2023 20:04

@QuiteAJourney - totally agree and well worth feeding back!

Sugar118 · 27/01/2023 20:24

Hi, good luck to all DC for offers.

can I ask if anyone can help how easy/difficult is entry to St John’s or Epsom for DD who’s relatively average academically (CAT 115).

thank you

Sugar118 · 27/01/2023 20:26

Sorry- ignore pls as previously answered

secondaryquandries · 27/01/2023 20:28

Sugar118 · 27/01/2023 20:24

Hi, good luck to all DC for offers.

can I ask if anyone can help how easy/difficult is entry to St John’s or Epsom for DD who’s relatively average academically (CAT 115).

thank you

I am no expert, so please take advice from others also. But from what I do know, I would guess that Epsom might be aspirational for you, St John's a good chance and that you need a less selective schools as back up. Also, it depends a bit where you are in the prep journey, is she average in state, or in a selective prep. Are you planning on tutoring for the exams or taking a relaxed approach etc.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 20:40

secondaryquandries · 27/01/2023 20:28

I am no expert, so please take advice from others also. But from what I do know, I would guess that Epsom might be aspirational for you, St John's a good chance and that you need a less selective schools as back up. Also, it depends a bit where you are in the prep journey, is she average in state, or in a selective prep. Are you planning on tutoring for the exams or taking a relaxed approach etc.

Show quote history

Not an expert either, but St John is increasingly popular. I would also suggest that you need more back up.

OP posts:
KindergartenKop · 27/01/2023 20:52

@Sugar118 have you also looked at Ewell Castle?

Firenze12 · 27/01/2023 21:12

In this market you probably do need a back up. London is crazy.
However please be aware 115 is not average. 100 is national average and your child should do well at GCSE etc with a Cat score of 115.

PreplexJ · 27/01/2023 21:42

Firenze12 · 27/01/2023 21:12

In this market you probably do need a back up. London is crazy.
However please be aware 115 is not average. 100 is national average and your child should do well at GCSE etc with a Cat score of 115.

In reality 115 is top 85% nationally on the bell curve (130 is top 2% nationally). For good and top schools in London, generally speaking you will need around 120-130+.

Natural intelligent kids if prepare at the average hours level in London can push up the CAT for about 10-15 points. But in this MN thread where statistics doesn't applied you will see some report many kids are naturally smart with 120+ CAT.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 27/01/2023 21:51

KindergartenKop · 27/01/2023 20:52

@Sugar118 have you also looked at Ewell Castle?

@Sugar118 that is very good call by @KindergartenKop
You may also want to look at Claremont Fan Court (traditionally less competitive than St John's).
Imho, the best thing is to visit and explore how it aligns with your DD's personality and preferences ... and not think that 'more academic' equals 'better' (there are many dimensions beyond league tables)

OP posts: