SW London Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (Part III)

[QuiteAJourney]

Continuation from

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4697901-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-ii?page=40&reply=122947087

An opportunity for parents of DC applying to private and grammar schools in SW London for entry in year 7 in 2023 to share their journeys.

@SamPoodle123 Exploding offers happened at CLSG a couple of years back, and caused absolute mayhem (and no small amount of ill-will against the school). After that debacle you'd hope no school would ever do it again (though sounds like Radnor didn't learn that lesson). I think it's fairly unusual, and is obviously grossly unfair on children who have worked so hard for so long - the least they should get is a little time to consider their decision.

Hopefully it won't be an issue with any school this year, but as @travelturtle says, read the offer letter carefully and any further comms from the school too. (I seem to remember at CLSG they didn't originally say that the offers would be exploding - that happened after offers went out, presumably when they started getting more acceptances than they anticipated, but I may be misremembering).

Morning all! DS at last exam this morning!! Ah it’s one we all really like so hoping all goes well. How are you all??

Mine too. Good luck 🤞🏻

@travelturtle Thank you, that is very helpful. I hope they allow us to view the schools and time to consider the offer!

@LondonMum20222 Thanks. I can not believe they or any school would do that! It sounds TERRIBLE. What an awful thing to do to a child....here is your offer, wait no you were too slow to accept we take it back. I get that they want people to accept by a certain time, but really, it is important decision to make, so families should be given time to think and at least to attend the holder event before deciding.

I am a little nervous, as I assumed if/when my dd got offers we would just go to the holders events to help us decide. We viewed only one school. I kind of got scared off viewing schools, falling in love w one and then not getting an offer. Everyone kept saying how competitive it was etc. So we thought okay, we apply and if dd gets offers then we just attend the holder events. DD has done really well and passed through to interview round for all the schools she applied to, so we are hoping she will get offers (but again, who knows!). This whole process makes me nervous every step of the way!

I will not make the same mistake with my ds and I will view the schools earlier.

'Exploding offers' also happened at KGS when we applied a few years ago, although they never came into use. There was a clause in the offer document though. I'm not sure if they do it any more. The head said he didn't like it but his lawyers made him as there was absolutely no way they could fit in a bulge class.

@SamPoodle123 what happened with your DS? Well done to your daughter - which schools did you apply to?

We also did not go to all open events - the first few we went were so overcrowded - at some schools parents of y3 and y4 children, and generally turned to be a bit stressful overall.

similar experience war the G&L interstice tomorrow - very short and informal. Curious how DC are evaluated? Sounded very subjective to be about points.

Goodness this is what happens when I write before I’ve had my coffee - I meant - “similar experience with the G&L interview yesterday”

Is that Halliford? Good Luck!!!!!

@FriendlyMom thanks for your response. Nothing happened with my ds yet lol. He is in year 4, but I meant I would not make the same mistake waiting to view the schools or at least I will view half the schools :) I just feel, we know the schools are good and did not want to get excited about one in particular unless we had an offer. I won't view though until year 5 for him. Still thinking of which schools to apply for him. With my dd, it was all last minute, as we did not know we would apply to 11+ until end of year 5. We come from a state school and dd is my first dc so we went in blind, not knowing what to expect etc.

We only applied to 4 schools because I got tired of the applications and worried it would be too much for her. The schools are G&L, Putney high, Francis Holland SS and Emanuel. Now I wish we did Latymer Upper and SPGS as well. My dd has been calm through it all, loved taking the exams, loves doing interviews, no pressure. I am the one secretly freaking out or stressing. I just hope she gets into the right school for her. And people say the schools know if a dc will fit in, but how would they know with a 15 minute interview!?

What schools did your dd apply to? I am curious how the dc are evaluated at G&L as well. I felt the FH interviews did a better job at this.

@SamPoodle123 I honestly wouldn't stress about exploding offers. They're really very rare and you will get to see schools before making decisions. Your DD has obviously done really well and is taking it all in her stride!

I sometimes wonder what goes on 'behind the scenes' with the Consortium exam because all the schools can clearly see the scores and they will all know that those who have scored over x% will no doubt get the G&L offers; the next band will filter to other schools and so on. In past years, it seems like FHSS offer academic scholarships to girls with scores above a certain thread hold to tempt them away from G&L, but I don't know if these scholarships are that effective as it's only a token amount really (5% or 10%). Then there are all the other schools who must have a pretty good idea as to what offers girls will have due to the scores and will be calculating their offer ratios accordingly.

On the the question of what is the point of this very brief interview for G&L... My suspicion is, there will be some 'dead certs' ie. the very high scorers in the exam, so maybe the interview for them is just a very brief screening to check they are broadly teachable / make eye contact or something like that. Do they seem to want to be there, or do they present like they've been dragged out of bed and aren't really interested or bothered to make an effort? I don't know? But probably, there is a whole cluster of girls who got very similar scores in the exam, just a mark or percentage if a mark difference? So perhaps the interview is more important in those more 'borderline cases' because, on paper, there may be nothing between them? I don't know, but this is what I suspect? If there are 50 girls with almost identical exam scores, maybe it just comes down to how readily they engage and approach this task with the pictures (which seems crazy, but I suppose where the margins are so tight, it has to come down to something)?

Yes, this is the conclusion DH & I have come to about interviews too. They "red flag" any candidates in the top x% they're planning to offer to just in case they're really "not the right fit", and then the remainder are to decide between the remaining candidates, all of whom would do well at the school, to find the ones they like the most.

A question though - surely all the consortium schools don't know which other consortium schools you've applied to? I know GDST schools ask you to list all the other schools you've applied to (Consortium or not) but if you apply to G&L do all the other consortium schools you've applied to have access to that info? I thought you sat the Consortium exam but applied to each school direct. Surely it would be a breach of GDPR otherwise?

@mantrama That is interesting regarding the scholarship offers at FHSS. I wonder what the scores they are looking for to offer a scholarship!

I wonder if they also want to see if there is more to the dc then just achieving a certain score? DD was asked about her hobbies at the G&L interview, something which she is happy to talk about. She is passionate about her hobbies :) She stuck with all hobbies during the 11+ and she had a very full schedule.

I would love to be able to sit in on the interviews to see how the dc do. To me, I cannot imagine anyone would perform poorly. Of course, the dc will be on their best behavior for the interviews. Would be interesting to see, if I am wrong and if there are dc who are just not willing to do tasks etc.

@LondonMum20222 the exam form for G&L had that question. Can't remember the other consortium schools we applied to, but am pretty sure they did too - it relies on the parents' honesty, but these schools do ask.

On the subject of offers, no doubt some of you will be the lucky holders of multiple offers in February. I'll offer a bit of advice. First, do not turn down any offers until you have confirmation of your DC's place at your chosen school. Second, how you deal with the offer(s) you wish to decline can be done in many ways. Some people immediately decline all of them, which is nice for the schools and other DCs on waiting lists. Others stagger the declining of offers, some wait until the last day. It's obviously up to you, but there's one thing that I would recommend you not do. Some like to just never reply to the school and let the offer expire. No email, nothing. Besides being a bit rude to not reply to a school, I would suggest this is a very bad strategy. Here's why: For most DCs, they will be very happy in their new school. However, for a few it will be the wrong choice and it will make sense to move to a different school, perhaps one that previously made your DC an offer. How kindly will the admissions office be to a parent who let their previous offer expire without any response when that parent phones up and asks for a Year 8 spot? Treat people like you want them to treat you. Good luck everyone.

I completely agree. This tallies with the advice received from our prep about how to reject. Basically, the courtesy that you would apply in any line of work - reply politely to their offer (rather than silence) and do it asap as you have another firm offer that you know that you prefer.

Wise words @bjmin . On a similar note, I have heard some schools won’t offer if a sibling goes elsewhere…..anyone shed any light? I get this is a good way of reducing numbers but seems unfair as surely everyone is their own person. And since most secondary aged kids go to school on their own, surely it is less of an issue if your kids go to the same place or not. It seems to assume all siblings are the same which is obviously not the case!!

@Redapples81 this would surely be silly! But then again I've heard of schools offering based on postcode, so there are all sorts of urban legends... As for the acceptances - reading the old forum posts from years ago, and hearing firsthand, actually, of parents accepting offers of multiple schools and paying deposits for more than one school!

Sadly it is all about the scores on the exam for at least the consortium. The schools don’t advertise this, but they are obliged to tell you how your dc scored and what the cut-offs were. For example, last year two schools did not interview anyone who got less than 123 on any part of the test, while another interviewed everyone who got an score of 115.
Interviews are, as people said, screenings but unlikely to make changes to decisions at the Consortium schools - not sure about others.
I worked in uni admissions overseas and am completely floored by the extent to which the 11+ relies wholly on a child’s test scores without taking other things into consideration. When we started this journey I thought consortium was great as it streamlined exams and that LU/SPGS/CLSG were out of touch doing more drawn out processes, but I’ve flipped entirely. Relying on one test that is not offered in a standardised way for all applicants (prep schools offered it in their own schools, while everyone else takes it in an unfamiliar place surrounded by strangers etc) just seems unconscionable to me for anyone, let alone children this young.
FWIW, we also found G&L very off putting in this process and my DD is clear it’s not the school for her. She is very keen on CLSG (we’re less keen based on commute), LU (our top choice), and FH, all based on her experiences during the admissions process (we didn’t apply to SPSG based on its reputation as a hot house which I’ve learned is no longer a fair assessment but we’re new to the U.K. and relying on the advice of anyone with an opinion!). I will also say that despite our family opinion of G&L, everyone we know whose DD attends, loves it and loves the head (who I found aloof and generally uninterested in the applicants on exam day and yesterday).
Also we didn’t ask for scores as I would overthink it all, but using this as a general guide. FHRP doesn’t interview all, so when we got that invite I knew she likely got more than 115. G&L interview invite means she likely got more than 124 and so is likely to get offers from at least FHRP and NHEHS. LU interview means chances are good for offer or wait list. CLSG is a bit more of a black box as they interview everyone who takes second stage exam. This is as much info as I can handle knowing as I’m already somewhat obsessing…as you can probably tell!

There seem to be all sort of urban legends and we should treat them as such but the issue of parents paying more than one deposit seems to be a real and recent one - I think it might be associated with the fact that there were no exams between 2019 and 2022 and I know of people that wanted to see the GCSE and A-level based results in 2022 before making the final decision. Not something that I would do, including on ethical grounds.
It wonder whether, with exams becoming more normalised, that will become less prevalent.

Good luck to your children @sugarcookie5 and @MrsAFlorrick!!

I assume you worked in US admissions? That's generally the difference between UK vs US school admissions at all levels. US looks broadly, UK is all about hitting the exam results. Look at how important A levels are vs SATs. A levels can make or break an offer in the UK. SATs are really important, but so are other things.

My DD did not take the Consortium exam but, if she had done, my biggest concern would be not so much the fact that students take it in different places but the fact that it is a completely black box, with a so-called adaptive element that is artificial but definitely not intelligent, and that is is run by a commercial platform that has an interest in aligning the questions with what the material on their website. As debated previously in this thread, the reliance on Atom is quite an unwelcome development in terms of transparency. of process, and hopefully one that is not adopted by others, though PHS (which is not one that we applied to either) seems to be going down that route too.
Call me all fashioned, but I am a big fan on the 'traditional' approach - all kids sitting paper exams in same conditions, same questions for all. Schools like KGS and LU and others seem to excel at it .. surely others can.

Brilliant advice! It's a waiting game for those on waiting lists and incredibly unfair if a family know that they have no intention of accepting the place. Similarly when people accept a grammar place and then go private without informing the school. The beginning of September arrives and there's an empty seat.