PGL trips - please help!

[Missionpossible]

Hello,

About PGL trips for primary school children.

Does anyone know:

• What time children finish dinner
• What the bed routine tends to be: time for lights out, if children are allowed to mess about, etc
• What time children are woken up
• How well children are able to sleep
• Whether breakfast options include oat
• Whether there is a water fountain (or similar) for children to easily refill their water bottle
• How bothersome it can be to others in the bedroom when someone gets up for a wee at night ? (For rooms containing a toilet.)

I am asking these strange questions because I have a Year 4 son due to attend soon a 4-night PGL stay with school. And the problem is that he is only reliably dry at night when following a certain routine, namely a 2-hour gap between any food/drink and bed, a diet that keeps constipation at bay, and good night sleeps. He also has to get up for a wee every night. When we booked the trip, he had been dry for 3 months, but as I was reminded this weekend, accidents can happen when he is overly fatigued and/or drinks too close to bedtime. So I'm trying to understand how much these 2 factors can be controlled on a PGL trip.

(For context, he has been attending a enuresis clinic for over a year but nothing has worked long term so far.)

Thank you for any input.

I have no idea about PGL organise their days but having accompanied many children on residential trips, your son won’t be the only one needing a wee in the night and probably won’t be the only one who isn’t always dry. The usual solution is to send the child with “Dry Nites pull ups” and to make accompanying staff aware. It’s never been a problem in my experience and it’s easy to be discreet.

We had tablets prescribed for one of our DC when he went to PGL with Cubs. Speak to your GP about them.

Have you tried the mat/alarm system? We were cynical but it worked for DS.

Whether there is a water fountain (or similar) for children to easily refill their water bottle

At DD's PGL they said that the water fountain switched to lemonade for a short time every hour. DD believed it for far, far too long afterwards (well into her teens). She was never lucky enough to catch it on the lemonade setting though...

how long is a piece of string...

tbh you need to talk to the teacher.
those places are all slightly different.

imo you are overthinking it. these places run a lot of class trips and are very professional. most children will have an absolute blast and bring back to s of good memories.

Get them pj pull ups & request they be assigned a bottom bunk.
Tell the teachers.

Then try not to worry.

Children will finish dinner any time from 5.30 until 7, depending on the sitting they are allocated.
There are evening activities which tend to finish about 9 /9.30. Bed routine starts then! Most children will be asleep by 11/11.30 the first night, earlier the second. There will be a persistent few who think they can stay up all night, staff will tear their hair out trying to get them to shut up!
They are generally up and ready for around 8. How much sleep they get in between depends on how strict the staff are and how much peer pressure there is to keep quiet. The second/consecutive nights are much quieter as the children are exhausted.
PGL are very good at catering for different diets. If your child needs porridge every morning, they will make it. However, it tends to have to be a medical need rather than a preference!
Children are encouraged to fill up water bottles all the time.
Getting up in the middle of the night is common and not a problem, make sure he has a torch so he doesn't need to turn the lights on.
There are a surprising number who still wet the bed or need pull ups etc. Just make sure the staff are aware.

Loads of kids won't actually do a poo when away...just so you know....

The one DD attended had a huge self selection of food - most was good quality and home made.
They Lee them active all day and late evening with night walks, orienteering etc so late finishes, means they’ll sleep!!

Can you get your son a watch and set the alarm to remind him to drink at 8pm or so …

I would also warn the teachers it’s a possibility and for them to check he’s been to the loo - they can do this for the whole dorm before lights out.

God the one we went to with Guides the food was dreadful.

Pasta and sauce and a few bits of cucumber if you were lucky.
Or nuggets/cheap suasages with chips.
Breakfast was cereals and bread.

Barely a vegetable in sight!

Oh wow, thanks everyone! I didn't expect so many answers, and so quickly. Very useful information. The challenge is that my son refuses point blank to have anyone at school know about this. His teacher has children at the school, so he is afraid the news will leak. (No pun intended!) He also refused to attend an appointment at our nearby enuresis clinic when he realised one of the reception staff has a child at his school. (We had to request a transfer to another clinic). He is terrified that someone at school will find out - so it could be tricky to ask teachers to help with related medicine, etc. (Although I'm hoping teachers remind children to have a wee before sleep as a matter of course.) His dad and I have never ever made him feel bad about the situation, but somehow he feels shame.

@Harebrain @TeenDivided No chance my son will agree to wear a pull-up unfortunately.

@highheelsandbobblehats Yes, we have discussed desmopressin with the nurse. I'd rather avoid going down that route for a number of reasons, and it doesn't work for all kids. But it's good to be reminded that this may be an option, and I'm not dismissing trying it And yes, we've been using an alarm for over a year now, which helps.

@TeenDivided Great idea to ask for a bottom bunk, explaining he needs to get up for a wee at night.

@spanieleyes Super useful, thank you. Great thinking about the torch: I hadn't thought of that.

@greenacrylicpaint
I agree, this trip would be so beneficial to my son's development. I know he would love the experience and build amazing memories. And it feels we are so so close to solving the bedwetting problem. But there's this nagging doubt...

@00100001 Oh, dear! I will enquire about food with the school.

@Allsnotwell The watch is a brilliant idea. I'll give some thought about what reminders we could set

THANK YOU! Feeling more confident now.

We were reluctant to use desmopressin too, likely for many of the reasons you are. However we discussed it with DS as well as the GP, and ultimately it was him that wanted to have them. It was almost like a safety net for him as he was worried about it. We now only use it for trips such as these.

I feel your pain about the mat/alarm. Worked for DS but then all of a sudden he regressed (after about 6 months) and we were back to square one. Its taken a while for it to kick in again this time round. We're currently up to night 5 in a row at the moment which is the longest stretch in a while and he's actually waking himself now so I have hope.

I know for some children it works instantly, which I why I mentioned it.

I've taken Brownies (age 7-10) to PGL recently. Different locations might have different facilities.

What time children finish dinner
Usually between about 6-7pm
What the bed routine tends to be: time for lights out, if children are allowed to mess about, etc
That depends on the teachers really. There are activities organised for after dinner and I'd imagine Y4 kids will be pretty tired.
What time children are woken up
7am when we went
How well children are able to sleep
We had to deal with tears (more so the 2nd night when they were tired) but mostly they slept well
Whether breakfast options include oat
There are cooked breakfasts and cereal on offer. There may be oats/porridge. Ask the teachers who are organising the trip
Whether there is a water fountain (or similar) for children to easily refill their water bottle
Yes, there are water filling stations in the dining areas and certainly the location we went to has a 'teacher's' kitchenette area so water bottles could be refilled.
How bothersome it can be to others in the bedroom when someone gets up for a wee at night ? (For rooms containing a toilet.)
That depends a bit on how lightly others sleep but it wouldn't be that much of an issue

Speak to the teachers. PGL say they can manage bed-wetting, although my experience is that leaders have to deal with it themselves. Consider sending spare sheets/bedding and spare pyjamas. Consider asking teachers whether he can be in a room with fewer other people. Would he consider pull-ups / tena pads?

I would say that PGL food probably isn't great for avoiding constipation. It's very beige! A lot of chips, pizza, and general carbs. The location we went to has a salad bar and fresh fruit was always on offer but you have to eat a lot to counteract the effect of 3 cooked carb-heavy meals a day.

Speak to the teachers now so they have time to liaise with PGL and yourself to work out how it will work for him.

This would likely depend on the location.

Regardless, it would be a change to your son's routine, and tiring days of activities.

Have you thought about pull ups just while away? Or peejamas, which are more discreet? (They are pyjamas that look normal but are waterproof)

You need to tell teachers anyway, you're leaving them in loco parentis. If he wets he will hide it and it'll stink, and he will have a problem he can't solve by himself of having to go back into a wet, smelly bed the next night. His friends will 100% notice and that would be much worse than a theoretical risk of a teacher telling a child. Unfortunately being away from home is a big trigger for some kids, and they will mostly come home absolutely shattered, so you need a back up plan. Just a heads up to the teachers transforms the landscape - they will be on the look out for subtle signs from him that help is needed.

There are lots of ways to cover it. Pull-up he leaves in his bed in the morning for a staff member to whip out, or he can go for "medication" in the morning to get some privacy for changing. He should have a bottle of water with him that he can spill over any puddles, giving him a more acceptable reason to need a bedding change. If he's bringing a sleeping bag then a spare one can live with teachers or we've used a sleeping bag liner as back up.

Mainly though, give him some stats on how common this is. If he's at a big school there will be some in every year group, and it is as normal for teachers as looking after asthma meds. They are not going to go whispering to their kids, and your son needs to have something robust in place to support him. Hopefully just having the back up will mean he can sleep a bit better and therefore stay dry. Otherwise he's likely to be up half the night afraid to sleep after a tiring day which is a recipe for disaster.

Another perk is he might get a guaranteed small room with just his best mates, and maybe even a spare bunk or two.

My boy did several PGLs, Cub camps, etc , and wasn't dry until he was 14.
Desmopressin is by far and away the best solution for nights away. Most children are terrified about their friends finding out that they're not dry at night, and pull-ups just aren't an option when they're not toddlers any more. And if he's over-tired, because he's worrying at night, it makes wetting more likely.
My son used it every night from when he was 9; I wish we'd started it sooner, because it helped him to relax and realise that it wasn't it fault.
He observed once, "nobody at school is mean to people who are ill or disabled, but I'm so scared of them bullying me if I'm wet". Sadly I think he was right.
Once he went through puberty he was fine.

Thank you so much everyone for sharing tips and experiences. It's very useful to understand how PGL days tend to be structured, and how children in my son's situation can still attend such trips. I now realise that, as you've all said, the fatigue and change of routine mean it'd be too risky to do nothing. But as my son still refuses to even consider pull-ups or absorbing pyjs, we are going to try Desmopressin. (We'll get my son off routine, incl. late drinks, to test properly!) This medicine feels less scary now after reading this thread - and it's to great to hear that it can work very reliably.

@highheelsandbobblehats The progress-regress cycles, with the alarm not being the miracle solution it's often presented as, are frustrating. Fingers crossed the problem will resolve for both our boys in the not-too-distant future. It can impact self-esteem so much.

@Lemonsole Who knew I may end up looking forward to my son reaching puberty, haha!

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Desmo buys them breathing space to build good habits: learning to drink enough, and to front-load their water during the day, getting into good habits in emptying their bowels and training their bladder over time to hold more. Our children will usually have been restricting water intake and, as a muscle, the bladder needs training like any other. This takes time.
Desmo isn't habit-forming and they can take it at will. My DS just stopped it over night when the time was right.

On PGL trips. The instructors on site are responsible for the day activities overseen by a member (s) of staff from school. At night, the staff on the trip are responsible.
I would have a conversation with their teacher privately about your concerns.

We also turned to desmopressin when the first school residential came up and tried it at home for a few weeks beforehand. The GP said to start with a low dose and see how it went, but that it was safe to take more if needed. DS needed a higher dose as it turned out, and the trip went smoothly. I also feel it has increased his confidence generally (he will now do sleepovers, for example) which has been great.

Modibodi (who make period pants) now make men/boys’ undies to cater for leaks which look just like regular pants. Would he wear those?

Get short course of desmopressin from the gp for the trip, make sure to get enough to try it out beforehand. This is really the most reliable and least likely to be embarrassing solution.

His teacher has children at the school, so he is afraid the news will leak. (No pun intended!) He also refused to attend an appointment at our nearby enuresis clinic when he realised one of the reception staff has a child at his school. (We had to request a transfer to another clinic). He is terrified that someone at school will find out

You need to have a very clear talk with your child about confidentiality within medical environments especially. A receptionist will not go home and tell their child that saw their school friend at the clinic they work in. You shouldn't be humouring this behaviour, you're making it worse.

You have to tell the school staff, because they will either gave to administer the medication (no child can keep medication with them except inhalers, and staff need to know who gas one of those) or deal with the consequences of a wet night.

There is no option in which the school staff is not told. None. You should not be considering that as a possibility. Your son nay choose who you tell, as long as that person us on the trip, but he and you cannot choose not to tell anyone.

Every member of staff who has been on a residential trip has done this before. It’s a normal and expected part of their work, and they will be discreet.

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate all the contributions and info about Desmopressin. @Tygertiger I will look into Modinodi as well, thank you.