What do you think of this school day?

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The school my DC go to have decided to restructure the school day to comply with government requirements. Instead of adding more time onto breaks and lunch they have added an extra lesson. They've sent out a lot of information and there will be a parent consultation in 2 weeks.

I've attached the current and proposed timetables to this post. But briefly, they are currently in school 0850-1455, have five 55 minute lessons plus the rest (registration, break, lunch etc.). The proposed day is 0830-1535 and has six 55 minute lessons.

Whole school impact:
Longer days but extra lessons
Lunch is now 40 minutes for half the school (two sittings) rather than 40 minutes for the whole school (one sitting) so this gives them more time to eat and have a break.

KS3 impact:
Some lessons which are currently on rotation won't have to be

KS4/GCSE impact:
This will allow them to offer an additional option (9 subjects/4 options) which includes making triple science a genuine option and means those who want to follow EBacc have more free choice. They currently do 8 subject/3 options.

This means KS4 has 2 additional periods a week and school have asked opinion on whether we prefer them to do 1 extra English and 1 extra Maths, or, 1 extra PE and 1 extra LSPD (Life Skills and Personal Development).
So either 5 English, 5 Maths, 1 PE and 1 LSPD
or, 4 English, 4 Maths, 2 PE and 2 LSPD.

KS5 impact:
All options increase from 5 lessons per week to 6.
Also have the PE and LSPD question. Currently have 15 lessons for 3 subjects, 1 PE, 1 LSPD and 8 study periods. This can either be changed to 18 lessons, 1 PE, 1 LSPD and 10 study periods, or, 18 lessons, 2 PE, 2 LSPD and 8 study periods.

Personally, and my DC agree, I like the LSPD lessons they have. They've done things like cooking for different traditions, outdoors education, wiring a plug, ironing a shirt, first aid, mental health, careers, some RE, some SRE, study skills, and later up the school they include CV writing, job interviews, university and college applications, finances, a bit of child development and how to change a car tire, as well as other things. It seems a pointless 'everything but nothing' lesson but its actually quite a good lesson. Just not sure whether 2 of these a week, as well as 2 PE is a good thing?

Really, what i'm asking is:
A. Does the new school day (and reasons behind it) seem like a good thing?
B. Extra PE and LSPD or extra English and Maths
C. Anything else I should know/ be asking when the in person meetings happen in 2 weeks?

I should add, my DC are Y9 and Y7.

That sounds not dissimilar to my DC's school except they have 5 hour long lessons and 35 minutes for tutor time/assembly (which also covers some PSHE and certainly more than could be done in 10 minutes, so I'm assuming things like whole year group assemblies will end up taking up other lesson time? Or maybe that is what your extra PSHE lesson could be used for?

The benefits of changing sounds positive. The big downside for me would be that those on the earlier lunch have 3 lessons in the afternoon which might be very heavy going.

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable school day. Ours is 08:40-15:25 so it’s not far off. They also have 5 one hour lessons, although, they are probably 55 minutes once you consider changing/walking time so your school is better in that respect in recognising and accepting it’s a thing. I would say your day has gone from the very slightly short to the slightly long but still perfectly within reason. I can’t see how they would get it to finish at half 3, I don’t know what they would lose to manage that unless they want to start at 0825. So, from that point of view, nothing wrong with the day itself.

I would question the group that has the 3 lessons together in the afternoon. Is that reasonable? That’s 3 hours of learning without a break (if you don’t count the changeover time between the lessons). Is there a possibility of making lunch maybe 30 minutes, especially if they have 50% of the throughput compared to now and putting a 10 minute break in the afternoon? Not sure how that would work for the group that’s only doing 2 lessons though. Maybe they have a 40 minute lunch as planned? I don’t know, something for you to ask about.

The general reasoning behind all the key stages is reasonable and sensible. KS3 not having lessons on rotation is a very good thing as they can explore the subject more over the course of a year rather than it being quite bitty. I love the idea of triple science as an option as well as giving more choice on what is a very restrictive curriculum these days (particularly for higher abilities who have to do EBacc). I also like the idea of more time for 6th formers.

For KS4 I wouldn’t know about extra PE and PD (or LSPD as you call it), I have one DC that hates both, one that loves both and another that likes one but not the other. For some extra of these might make school bearable, for others it would be a pointless lesson. English and Maths are really really important so extra time on those is never wasted. It’s one of those that has no perfect solution, is there a compromise the school can make? Maybe give one of the lessons to English because they have 2 compulsory GCSEs for that now and the other to either PE and PD maybe as a choice or a rotation?
I can’t see why KS5 would be interested in more PE and PD over studying for their A Levels/BTECs/Other level 3. They would be better off with the extra study time. Again, can the school either compromise like I mentioned above, or make the extra 2 optional?

What about children with SEND, or struggle with either English or Maths. Adding an additional GCSE option is a good thing for some (and I so support the idea), but would the ones who struggle with English and Maths be better off doing additional English and Maths? Is there potentially something where the extra option block can be used for those children to do English and Maths while the others who can manage the workload and don't need the extra support do another option? Or maybe they want to use PE and PD to do this for that group because it allows the less academic to take a vocational/technical option?

Another thing, (making an assumption this is going to happen in September) although your DC won’t be impacted, what is the plan for the current Y10 who are in the middle of GCSES? Are they going to have to pick up another option? Do they get extra of something else? What are they doing for the extra 5 lessons a week?

What about the teachers? What are they gaining (or not gaining) from this change? Things like working hours, workload etc all need to be considered – possibly already been done if it’s been put to the parents but worth asking.

Are they asking the kids about what they think? At the end of the day, it is them the school is there for, they are the ones that have to deal with this every day.

Sorry, there's a lot there but my mind just kept thinking of questions. Hope this helps :)

What will the impact be on teacher retention and recruitment.

I agree with most, if not all, that's already been said.

If they're having problems deciding what to do with 2 extra lessons, why don't they finish after lesson 4 on a Friday afternoon? (1335?)

Would also help with the teacher retention mentioned by @upfucked

It sounds okay to me. But our school is 08.30 to 16.20 and then after school clubs until 5 pm so the longer days seem normal to me. The school does extra PE and one afternoon a week does a rotation of activities like cooking; tennis; community service etc or holds extra lessons in core subjects for those struggling. However it is a private school and the longer holidays make up for the longer school day I think.

But yes I think there may be an impact on teacher retention and would hope that there is an analysis on how much extra teachers will have to do. Teachers coming into our longer school day know it in advance of course, but changing the goal posts of the day might very well negatively impact the existing staff.

MY yr 7 DS does 8.30-3.30 with 5 55min periods, it includes a 30 min end of day form tutor period.

My DS is in school 0830-1600. (State school, non selective)
6 hour long lessons (no change over time on the timetable so probably more like your 55 minutes in reality).
They have an X and Y populations like your A and B.

School starts 0830
They have 15 minutes of registration and thought of the day
2 lessons
Morning break for 15 minutes
1 or 2 lessons (depending whether X or Y)
Lunch for 45 minutes (split lunch X and Y)
1 or 2 lessons (depending whether X or Y)
Afternoon break for 15 minutes
1 lesson
10 minutes of registration and reflection
School ends 1600
Extra curricular 1600-1700

They have one lesson a week which is 50/50 split form/long assembly. Long assembly can be year group, key stage or whole school.

They also finish after lesson 5 on Friday (so 1 hour 25 mins early).

It’s a model that seems to work. Don’t seem to have a problem recruiting, but teachers know what they’re signing up to and they have built in planning and marking time.

So your school day length seems fine to me and the reasons for it make a lot of sense.

Would question

• Afternoon break (teachers need breaks too!)
• Are teachers supportive
• Impact on teachers workload/lives
• Some KS3 still on rotation, but less of a rotation than it is now, so can have an early finish once a week
• KS5 better off with study periods especially if they still have compulsory PE and LSPD. Don’t waste the time.
• KS4 also don’t need to be wasting more time, use it to be productive and useful or something that benefits everyone like early finish, getting rid of assemblies so earlier finish every day and one big assembly a week. Or do PE, LSPD, English and maths rotation.
• If you think it’s too long, get rid of assembly, increase form time to 15 minutes and use one of the extra periods for form/assembly time. This will save about 10 minutes in the day.

DD has 6 lessons a day (50 minutes each) plus 30 minute tutor group. They run 9am till 4.20pm and then there is optional extra curricular from 4.45pm.

Just had a look at her timetable (Y9) and they have 4 maths, 4 English plus an English reading session, 2 sessions of PE and 1 session of Citizenship. I think Tutor group covers a fair amount of the LSPD type stuff as well.

It's quite a long day - especially if you also do sports clubs after school - but they have minimal homework.

They have a staggered system so some years start at 8.30am and finish at 3.40pm, but same numbers of lessons. Lunch is staggered and lasts 50 minutes and there are no break-times after Y7.

Most people do 10 GCSEs - core of maths, english x 2, MFL, humanity and double science, plus 3 options.

Just to add - SEND pupils have the option to drop either MFL or a humanity and do an extra session of English, Maths and Science a week instead.

Triple science is available using one of your 3 options.

(State school that is not academically selective but does use banding tests and aptitude tests for music and sport).

The pupils have definitely been asked what they think. Also, the split/longer lunches were asked for. It's been a problem for a while with not being able to get them all through so impacting on the lesson after lunch or them not having enough time to eat. It's been mentioned by the kids and the parents to the teachers, governors, you name it, many times. It's nice to see they have finally acted on the complains situation.

The school mentioned to the kids at the start of the term that the school day needed to be made longer and asked for suggestions.

They set up a suggestion box and they read all the suggestions. There were 3 ideas/suggestions which were picked out because they had been mentioned the most. They were

• Extend breaks and lunch
• An extra lesson but shorten the lessons and extend lunch
• An extra lesson but split lunch

They (the school) asked the kids to discuss them, including presenting all the pros and cons for each one, and then they had a whole school vote on which they wanted (they used their LSPD lessons for this and talked about democracy, hence the reason I can see the benefit of LSPD). The extra lesson and split lunch won so they have worked to that in all the rest of the planning/decisions they have made so far.

Glad the school day is sounding about right. I remember my school day sounding something similar (0845-1530 I think, but that's going back a while now) so I don't think I'm too concerned about it. I was just trying to gauge what was normal these days. By the sound of it, there isn't a 'normal', some of you have similar days, others a lot longer and others shorter. I have looked at other schools in the area and they seem to be between 0830/0845 start and all with a 1530 finish, apart from one which is also consulting on the school day to be lengthened.
Some great points and suggestions made about the changes. Some questions I can add to my list which I hadn't thought of.

• What is the impact of the three lesson afternoon on learning?
• What is the impact of the three lesson afternoon on teaching?
• What about a break for the group doing the three lesson afternoon by potentially giving them a shorter lunch and a small afternoon break?
• What are extra LSPD going to be used for i.e. time for whole school assemblies?
• Is there a compromise to be made with PE and LSPD? Maybe one extra lesson which can rotate and the other used for academic subjects?
• Can KS5/6th form have the option on what they want to do as they already have a compulsory lesson on each?
• What is the impact on children with SEND regarding the extra option at KS4? Is this to allow them to do a vocational subject or will it be used for extra English and Maths?
• What do staff think about this?
• What is the impact on staff workload?
• Is there going to be an analysis on addition work teachers have to do? (excellent question @WinterLobelia)
• How will this impact recruitment and retention? (thanks @upfucked , I hadn't considered this at all)
• Will extra teachers be employed because of the increase in number of lessons?
• If you don't know what to do with the extra 2 lesson, what about a early finish on Fridays? (Although, isn't this going against what they are trying to achieve? @CurryAndChip5 )
• What about a 'thought of the day' in form time rather than assembly? This would help reduce the day and allow an LSPD period for the assembly stuff. (Not sure how I feel about this @Neim , but I do like the idea of 'Thought of the Day')
• Why 55 minutes, why not 50? (Thanks @OhCrumbsWhereNow, I know you didn't actually raise it as a question but its caused me to think of one)

Also consider asking about

• Impact on current Y10
• Impact on current Y12

This is all brilliant everyone, lots of points I hadn't thought of which I can raise at the meeting.

Could they be using 5 minutes of the 55 as transfer time?

Looking at DD's timetable, she has 4 lessons back to back, then lunch, then 2 lessons then tutor group rather than 3 in the morning.

I thought it was a bit odd not having morning or afternoon break at all but apparently not a problem according to DD.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow its not transfer time. There is 5 minutes between each of the lessons actually on the timetable, which is transfer time. They just seem to have chosen 55 minutes as the lesson time. I was wondering why, so Ill ask them.

4 lessons back to back sounds horrid to me, but I suppose I'm just the sort of person who preferred break time to lesson time when I was at school 😆