Pates Grammar School Cheltenham

[Snazzyface]

How clever does a child need to be to get into Pates. Are we talking top of their primary school class or exceptional? Is it possible to get in without using a professional tutor?

I know a few children who have got in from our local area. Definitely beyond top of the class - the school I deal with I would say a children gets in about every 3 years, with a lot of tutoring. Maybe more from the academic prep schools. I hear really positive things about it from families whose children go there, I think it is a golden ticket if you are bright enough. Not so sure about some of the other grammars in the area, SHS has very good results too but a very bad rep for mental health. Think there are some good grammars in Gloucester. There is an excellent comp in Cheltenham but I think the catchment area is supposed to be extremely expensive, sure you would find out by googling.

I’ve got one child at Pates and one at another Glos grammar who didn’t qualify for Pates. Both had another child from their class get into Pates too - from a good state primary. We didn’t use a professional tutor, but they did both do prep through year 5 using some online and booklet practice resources. Pates child is very bright but wouldn’t say exceptional, he was among another five or so of similar ability at primary - strong in maths and NVR, the 11 plus paper English topics fell quite kindly for him (for Pates you need to do well at all elements). And he enjoys tests and exams so thrives in that situation - non-Pates child not so much. They’re both at the right place for them.

Mine was top of class, but don't think they're exceptional. There's a couple of buddies who genuinely are, mind. But also lots of regular 'top of the class' types, IMHO. Feel free to PM if you want to discuss.

it really depends. one class in a local school might not get any kids in (this is far from uncommon), whilst another might get two or three.

bear in mind that the proportion of kids there who go to Russell Group universities varies by year but is generally around half or so, recently a bit better than that... so you can imagine that the marginal cases who barely scrape in, especially if they've had tutoring or been to a private prep, really aren't exceptional.

Pretty bright I'd say. I have one child there who was always top of his primary school class but others in his cohort weren't. The key thing with Pates and the 11+ is that unlike the other Glos grammars, they standardize scores, i.e. you have to pass all four sections. This makes the school intake much more rounded and balanced than most people imagine it to be. As for tutoring, I think any work which familiarizes your child with the format and year 6 maths will be useful, if that can be achieved in your home dynamic, I've certainly known people who have got to Pates without tutoring, but none without any preparation.
For those that do get through the 11+ process though, it is an amazing school.

@puffyisgood Think you may have your facts wrong there. Just had a quick look at the current prospectus (2022). The results are pretty astonishing.

95.4% of A-levels were A*-B.

Had a quick look at the 6th Form Prospectus. From my look, out of well over 200 students, I could only see 19 that weren't Russell Group. Of these 5 had apprenticeships at really prestigious companies and the remaining 14 non Russell Group courses were still things like Dentistry with a handful of very Art focused things.

Not had for people who barely scrape in.

Also I went to the Open Day and the Head say that there is only usually a few marks difference in the scores from the 11 plus across the entirety of the intake.

All in all I think that is pretty exceptional

Sorry just to be clear, I mean the 6th Form Prospectus laid out which courses at which university the students went on to do leaving Pates. It is hugely impressive. Whether that is down to the school or the fact they select only the brightest kids is a very different matter!!!

It's not an exceptional school but rather populated with a very able cohort. I've heard some dreadful accounts from people I trust as to how the staff have treated students in some departments. So badly that the students have left to return to their previous school - we are talking about exceptionally bright Y12 students with a proven track record academically.

The only DC I know who went there is quite stunningly brilliant with a string of A* at both GCSE and A level and an IQ off the charts. The sort of child who could go on to do anything they wanted. Not sure how much credit the school can take for that as it's clearly genetic, but it certainly didn't hurt.

I don't live in that area but doesn't Pates routinely come close to the top of the academic tables?

I went. Yes I was top of my primary . I got A’s at A level. No tutoring to get in but this was some years back (although some of my old teachers are still there). I Went to a Russell Group Uni (Exeter to read English - passed the Oxford exam but failed the interview) . Mental health was crap by sixth form though as I pressured myself a lot and I was rather left to it as I looked ok on the outside. Only send a mentally robust child, not one who is simply very clever. My son is totally not academic! But much healthier mentally than I was. I think he’ll do better in life than me - beware of thinking Pates is the panacea.

Seconding HedgehogB - Pate's is not a panacea. Getting a place there doesn't mean you can just relax. It's pretty high-octane (but lots of fun, too) and whether your child will thrive there as opposed to just 'manage' or 'cope' needs to be considered carefully, IMHO.

I tutor for the gloucester grammars.

I usually have about 6 students. They are all in the top set in their class (although of course schools/classes can vary enormously)
I would say that for Pates they do have to be very clever. Not just top set which would give them a chance of most of the grammar schools in glos, but really noticably clever within that set.

And no amount of tutoring can get a child who isn't naturally able into Pates, but it can get a child who is pretty average into the other grammars.

To score high enough they have to not only be very quick with doing their maths (can be teachable) but also have a very wide vocab (again teachable) and then have the ability to problem solve at speed and with accuracy. That is the one which is very hard to teach.

For families with bright children it is actually quite hard to work out how bright is bright. Glos grammars take approx top 5-10%. Pates takes top 1%

and no, no-one needs a professional tutor, but yes you do have to take time to prepare.

Pates' result are amazing, pretty much 8+9s across the board at GCSE and A and A* at A level BUT they take the top 1% so they really shoudl be getting those results.

It is a very intense environment. It isn't for everyone.

Hello, I'm currently looking for a tutor for my 8 y.o. girl. Would it be possible to talk to you or have a trial lesson, please? Thank you.