Advice for A level choices please

[BaconAndAvocado]

DS2 is in Year 11 and will have to start thinking about his A level choices.
Something he said he might want to do is to be a Computer Software Engineer.

Does anyone know which degree this would mean (I’m thinking Computer Science?) and which A levels he would require?

But you don’t need to go to a very competitive university to do this degree or get a job afterwards. Sheffield, for example, does Computer Systems Engineering with AAB to include maths and a science. @BaconAndAvocado i suggest DS looks outside the box!

At the moment he’s making decisions about A level choices....
Looking like it will probably be Maths, Computer Science and either Chemistry or Physics.

Lot of sensible advice here.

Also try this link to see what A levels are useful : www.informedchoices.ac.uk/degrees

It's worth looking at entry critieria for Computer Science in some of the universities your DS would like to consider

Towards the top end of university ranking table in Computer Science, A level Maths is mandatory, but not Further Maths (but recommended)

For example -

Imperial asks for Mathematics (essential) and for the other two, among recommended subjects they have Computer Science, Physics and Further Maths. (www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/computing-department/computing-beng/#entry-requirements)

While York, a bit further down the table, asks for Maths alone - www.york.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/bsc-beng-computer-science/#entry

So roughly which universities your DS is targeting may inform to some extent his A level choices. (but, in the upper half of the ranking table, Maths is essential)

I have no idea which universities he is targeting! He’s not great at making decisions!

Looking at how he performed in his Mocks, I think he will be averaging 7s and 8s in STEM subjects....not sure how relevant that is but it may inform his A level results and, therefore, University choices.

Just going to say that, while Imperial does not stipulate that the candidate must have FM, you pretty much need it to have a shot (vast majority will be applying with double A* predictions in Maths and FM). For borderline cases they will ask for a 2 in a STEP paper. I went to Imperial and got in for JMC (Maths and Computing).

Why does everyone keep mentioning Imperial. This lad is not really up to that. He’s 7/8 GCSEs. Not 9s. He’s not guaranteed A* in anything and no FM rules if out realistically. So look at what is realistic.

It’s also vital to have some idea of what he’s aiming for @BaconAndAvocado . I don’t think he will go wrong with his choices but it pays to be informed. That’s why there is information about making A level choices. If students make the wrong A level choices, they might not get on some courses. Doing the best A levels to keep options open is vital. you then see how the A levels go and make course decisions. It’s often useful to think more widely than courses which attract high numbers of A* students.

DS1 wanted to go to Imperial! It was the only Uni out of his 5 he didn’t get an offer from.
DS2 is not the same kettle of fish. He’s bright but, so far, hasn’t displayed the same hard work and determination. Maybe when the GCSEs become real, he’ll step up to the plate.
He got mainly 7s in his mocks with very little revision.

A bit more time will tell what's realistic but there's a range of good options at the different grade levels and maths plus any two of CS, physics and chemistry (and fm as a 4th perhaps if he ups his game a bit) should be fine and keep quite a lot of stem courses open.

I have two Y12s at different schools. Both are interested in CS.

One is taking A-Level
Maths, FM, Phtsics and CS.
The other is doing the same, minus FM.

@BaconAndAvocado
But you didn’t indicate ds2 wanted Imperial. There are so many other options to explore!

He doesn’t want Imperial, I was making general conversation. DS2 would have no idea what Imperial is.

Seems a bit premature to say that a student working at 7/8s level at GCSE in November of Year 11 already has to prune down their list of university choices ...

I don't think most Year 11s will know where (or in many cases if) they want to go to university. My Year 12 doesn't have a clue either!

Yes and no. The context of this is choosing A levels, and a DC who does have some idea what subject he might want to do at uni. Having a look at a few courses to see what their requirements are may be helpful. If he's not realistically likely to be expecting A stars then it's not too relevant what courses which require those grades want subject-wise.

If he's not realistically likely to be expecting A stars then it's not too relevant what courses which require those grades want subject-wise.

I'd like to think a current 7/8 student at GCSE is capable of getting A*s at A Level.
Far too early to write them off anyway. Perhaps the desire to get to a particular university might spur them on.
Many schools won't predict high anyway, so those grades are only not necessarily accurate.

It is useful to look at courses and universities. Teachers often think Dc should stick to school subjects (eg CS) but there are other options, such as the one at Sheffield I highlighted. Sheffield is a great stem university so looking around at courses and entry requirements is often useful. It is important to tailor A levels to requirements. A DD of a teacher I knew did the wrong A levels for a vet degree. DD managed to get on a foundation course but that’s a hell of a lengthy degree! As a very bright child, she could, and should, have done the right A levels.

Nobody is 'writing anyone off'.

Was just giving info that is more realistic rather than get people's hopes up (not just OP but anyone who reads this) that without FM, there is still a shot

FYI I barely bothered with my mocks and my mock performance did NOT reflect my GCSE results...for many students, it's a wake up call for their real exams. And a 7/8 student in their mocks can pull it up to a 9, so i agree that going off just on that to narrow down unis is not a good idea. I do private tutoring for several students on the side and have witnessed this.

However! If natural aptitude in, say, Maths is not a 9 (i.e if the student needs to try quite a bit to pull it up to a 9) then I would suggest no FM, hence no point applying to Oxbridge/Imperial for CS

No FM does not rule out many universities. Of course there’s still a shot!!! A big one! Have you read any admissions criteria? The elite ones will want FM (but do not always explicitly say so) but there’s so many more fantastic courses and universities.

Years ago LSE said they wanted FM for economics. They dropped that criteria. What proportion of Dc don’t have FM at that elite university who take economics? Very few. They want it, but don’t say so. The same with CS. Universities know some dc don’t get the chance to take it, so they don’t specify it. Most dc will have it though. However just avoid those elite universities and there is a whole world of great courses to choose from, even for the “lowly” student with just maths.

My DS doing Computer Science Degree, he did Maths, Computer Science and Physics. He is finding 1st year a little dull as going over a lot of stuff he did in Alevel (as not all done Computer Science Alevel) but he is enjoying it and the fact course for 1st term not too demanding so can focus on settling in.

Although (to go slightly full circle with the thread) OP's DC is not specifically interested in a Computer Science degree, but in becoming a Software Engineer. It's likely that degrees that are less than theoretical than Computer Science (for example, software engineering!) will not need Further maths.

I was specifically referring to a shot at Imperial, not at every uni...

And also, yes, I literally applied for CS courses when I applied to uni and got in so of course I read admissions criteria! If anything I think i am quite up to date.
FyI I am not a mum so went to uni fairly recently and joined more out of curiosity/colour for tutoring...

Just jumping into this thread if i may. What are people's thoughts on doing CS without a maths a level at all? Son v keen on cs, but his maths gcse predictions not great (probably max 7) and he finds it difficult . It would seem that several unis (i appreciate not Russell group, but Lancaster as an example) are more focused on UCAS points rather than subjects, while the ones that specify maths are looking at A/A*. It would therefore seem pragmatic to focus on which A levels would gain the most points (he is doing physics and CS, but we need to make the call on maths as the 3rd or not) rather than running the risk of a low Maths A level grade. Are we being naive in this approach?

(Apologies for hijacking thread but I've been following and it seems to fit the discussion!)

So he's not really struggling with gcse maths, just may not expect to get a high grade at A level?
I'd say the best thing is to get advice from the horses mouth. Admissions tutors are there to help - when my dd was weighing up which A levels to do she emailed a few admissions tutors to ask their advice and got some very helpful responses.

I assume you've already spoken to sixth form teachers about doing Computer Science and Physics without A Level maths (that would be a hard "no" at my DC's school and strongly discouraged at other places we viewed - my DS was also interested in this as a combination)?

The crucial point, for me, would not be "will he get onto a CS degree at university" but "will he cope with a CS degree" at university. Fortunately there is likely to be a correlation between universities that don't require maths A Level and those that require less mathematical type thought.

As per the FM maths conversation, the question better posed is not whether they would have him without Maths A Level, but how many students take the course without it.