Learning a 2nd foreign language at secondary - advice please

[purpleturtle1]

DD has just started year 7 at our local state comp in London and is really happy - doing well academically and loving the social side of things. However pupils only have the option to learn one modern language there. She has been assigned to Spanish, but I would like her to learn French too - even if just for a couple of years.

I’m thinking of finding a French tutor for her - to give 1-to-1 lessons - but am wondering if there’s a different/better option. Anyone have experience with Duolingo? Or group lessons? Or just learning from a textbook? She’s bright (doing very well at Spanish) and I think would pick it up easily. I also did French for A Level so could certainly teach her the basics - but I imagine lessons might go better with someone who wasn’t her mum!

Many thanks in advance.

Is there a local college or university that offers evening classes (not sure if there would be an age limit for enrolment but you could check)? You can start from beginner level and having people to speak to is great for practice. You could supplement something like this with Duolingo.
Out of curiosity, why French in particular?

Can't you just ask to switch her?

My school did French and German and my parents request I did French.

In year 9 top sets started doing the other language and we had the option to do it as a second GCSE language.

Does the school have an option to take on a second language in Y8? Some schools offer the other language as an additional later on.

If you did private tutoring, would she then have the option to follow it through later at school? Could she switch to French GCSE for example if she chose to?

I'd consider what outcome you want. Am got if French a week is going to take a long time to achieve fluency, whereas when she's a bit older, she could do an immersion course in the holidays.

an hour a week sorry predictive text!

Does she want to do French as well?
Spanish is spoken in far more countries than French.
I am not opposed to doing both in principle, I did both, but you say YOU would like her to do French - why?
If she did want to learn another language Duolingo is good

Look up classes organised by the Alliance Francaise in London.

She may be able to progress to certificate level, which would be a better qualification than GCSE.

If she's interested in German, the Goethe-Institut does classes to certificate level too.

My dd taught herself Japanese, I think she used Duolingo at least for some of it, then I paid for some lessons with an online tutor. Your daughter would have to really want to do French though, as she will be the one that needs do most of the learning, even with a tutor.

I think group lessons in person would be best if you could find this in your area, but otherwise just keep looking for a tutor until you find one she really clicks with. Also, ideally make sure they have experience teaching GCSE so they can give advice about the speaking test.

@Hoppinggreen thank you for your post, thinking about it it is logical that Spanish is spoken so widely, but like the OP, I was concerned when DD dropped French at the end of Y7 (she studied French, German and Spanish in Y7 and dropped French, so is now doing Spanish and German to GCSE).

As a language teacher I can say you can't learn a language from Duolingo although it's a fun extra learning tool. If she's keen and you can afford it I would look around for a group class (Try La Jolie Ronde, there are quite a lot of teachers running group classes, though you might struggle to find one suitable for a beginner of her age). Or look for a private tutor. She won't get the same level as school with one hour a week (and certainly would need more to get to GCSE) but she will still learn a lot. Is there not any option to pick up a second MFL later on in school?

Michel Thomas

I speak both french and spanish, as do my kids, but if I were you I'd pick a non-romance language for her to learn (german or russian for instance).

Why ? Because french and spanish are two very similar languages and if she knows one, and ever has an interest in the other, she'll learn it easily (I learnt spanish in basically six months). Whereas a language from another family will be harder and this is where she would benefit most from the help of a tutor. I also learnt russian and found it much harder than spanish (different grammar and conjugation system, declensions, completely different roots and etymology for most words, not to mention different word genders and stressed syllables !)

Just my two cents, I mean I'm french so I wouldn't discourage her from learning the language overall ! But this is exactly the reason why I would have preferred my kids learn another language than spanish (we live in a spanish-speaking country so didn't have a choice).

I feel your pain. I am a former linguist and my DD is only doing French which is frustrating! I looked into Spanish or German classes, but you may have more luck in London. DD loves duolingo but at the moment she just practices French with it.

Regardless of what languages you pick for her I recommand an in-person tutor as it is a lot more motivating. Duolinguo is a fun app but demands a lot of self-motivation and has it's limitations.

I would also look at children's books in whatever language (she should pick them herself). Or comic books (if you pick french there's a whole bunch of belgian classics to pick from). Children's books are great for language practice because they use a simple, basic vocabulary but still tell a story (until the excruxiatingly boring learning texts you find in most study books). Same with videos/cartoons. Without subtitles preferably (if watching a foreign language with subtitles actually helped learn it I'd speak fluent Japanese by now, with all the anime i watched 🤣).

I would say Spanish is much more useful so definitely stick with that. Mine both do two as standard. DS (11) does french and German and DD (15) had to choose two from French, Spanish and Latin when she started secondary. She dropped French from year 10 and is taking Spanish at GCSE.

The issue with him is that his accent is awful - DH used his program to try and learn French and Spanish (which I speak) and his accent hurt my ears!!
I know accent isn’t everything but I believe that if you learn the correct pronunciation and as good an accent as possible from the start it’s much better than trying to unlearn bad habits

Interesting. What is his accent? Where is he from? I always assumed he was French himself? Non?

The only other thing is that as an English person you're going to have an accent anyway - so what does it matter?

If the purpose is to be understood?

Though I understand it must grate! I'd be the same I'm sure!

He’s Czech or similar I think

You will never have the accent of a native speaker but if you learn from a native speaker it’s much better than someone who’s accent isn’t great.

I see what you mean and I do agree. However I think his method is quite unique and especially good for speaking and listening - which is what you want to be able to do if you're really going to use the language.

I have a English friend who has lived in Normandy 30 years and her French accent is atrocious. I'd say mine is better but I don't speak the language nearly as fluently.

I can hear her accent now myself as I've been connected in some ways to France so long now (I never used to hear accents but as my ear has got better I can them much more now).

My husband also has a very strong thick French accent and my Mum can barely understand him at times. But they both these terribly-accented people still get by. I'd still choose functionality over aesthetics but I do agree with you that it's better to learn from a native speaker.

I think unless your dc is particularly interested in learning French you're on a hiding to nothing here? A school timetable is already quite full and starting two languages at the same time could be confusing? Is there really no option to switch to French in school?

I say that as someone who has a degree in French and has 2 kids who deliberately chose Spanish and German! I am sad I didn't get to help, and I'm sad they can't communicate in the country that's closest to us....

Most colleges and Uni's would insist an 18+ age. Remember most university tutors and lecturers don't even need DBS to teach, despite vulnerable students. Adult Colleges strangely do require DBS from their tutors and lecturers.

I would look for French Saturday schools, as you're in London. They are geared for French ex pats who want to make sure their kids speak French. While the actual classes may be too much for your DC, they are a good source to find native teachers who can take on private work and invite you and your DC to events so they get to meet kids their age who have either French parents or a French parent.

We do this for our DC, as one of us is from an EU country, they speak this language at home to our DC, but need the Saturday school so they meet other children , outside of home and the Saturday school they obviously hear English all the time.

Thank you all so much for your responses! Much to think about and very helpful.

To answer a couple of queries, I am keen for DD to learn a second modern language to broaden her education, basically. The local comp was her first choice, not mine or her dad’s, and one of the caveats for her going there was that she’d learn a second language outside of school (which she agreed to).

There is no option for students to learn a second language if they choose to - the school say they don’t have the provision for it. You’re randomly assigned to either French or Spanish in year 7 and that’s it. Not to sound like a tiger mum but it drives me crazy. It’s even more of a trauma for me that they don’t learn Latin there 😅 I had a very different secondary education - academic private school, excellent language provision, all my friends did two languages to GCSE and pretty much everyone continued at least one language to A Level.

I would feel differently if DD wasn’t very academic - she is. She’s getting full marks in all her Spanish tests this term with about two minutes’ revision. I do think in happiness terms, the school is the right one for DD, but I continue to be concerned that she may be “coasting” a bit. She doesn’t have much homework and can do it all easily with the exception of maths (she can still do it but it’s a bit more of a challenge). Sorry I’m going off-topic but I feel like a bit of a tiger mum at this particular school!

Why French? I guess it’s the country closest to us and it just seems odd that kids in the U.K. would grow up speaking no French at all. DH and I speak in (bad) French to each other when we don’t want the DCs to understand!

Russian is an interesting idea - she has a massive crush on a boy at her school with a Russian parent so that may be an added draw for her 😂

Again, thank you all for your replies.

Not great that she can’t do both at school? Dd1 is at a state school and did French and Spanish gcse now doing Spanish a level

It’s the way with a lot of State schools now