Would CAT score be mentioned in school reference?

[AC7001]

Does anyone know if CAT score would be mentioned in school reference?

Our school does and my understanding is that most do. In our case if there was a disaster in the Y6 CAT, they cite the Y5 result, though this is obviously not ideal.

Our prep includes it.

If taken in school, yes it will be

My son got average CAT of 130. His quantitative is 137, spatial 135, NVR 132, VR 116. Would this more spiky profile be good or bad compared to someone whose average is also 130 but more evenly spread among the 4 areas?

Also, would prep school include breakdowns on CAT in the school reference?

We have applied to St Paul, Hampton, King's, Latymer Upper (plus some less academic schools). I know the exams and interviews are more important. But on CAT score alone, would my son's score be viewed positively or negatively by these schools?

His CAT scores are very good and would be viewed positively.

@AC7001 The score is very good of course. But I would argue that the schools you mention will view it neutrally rather than positively. DS had an even higher aggregate cat score and he really wasn’t viewed positively by these schools. He was viewed positively by several other schools though - it’s all about your peer group!

As you say, cat score isn’t a full indicator of a place, so you don’t have to give it a lot of importance.

Does that mean at least the score meets the expectation of these schools?

Yes should be okay.

@AC7001 We've been told by our head that CAT scores are only considered in borderline cases - and not always even then. And 130 average is still a great score. VR can easily be improved with more reading, whereas NVR and Spatial are more about innate ability.

My kids go to a state school and don't do CATs. Do the schools even look at the references anyway? Other than to filter for really difficult kids.

@KindergartenKop That’s right, state school students don’t have to put in a cat score but prep school students do have to. Yes, it comes into play only if it’s a borderline case. Yes, schools do look at reference letters very carefully to identify exceptional candidates in a certain field (sport or music).

I can give an anecdotal example. A child has a cat score of 135, but the written/ISEB score is terrible. A top school will still waitlist the child if the reference is excellent (plays a national level sport for example) or if the cat score is excellent. Sadly a 130 score doesn’t help much in borderline cases at top schools though (even though it’s an excellent score by itself).

@KindergartenKop @TypsTrycks Our (prep) head told us that secondary schools actually don't want mention in references any more about extra-curricular achievements, however stellar they might be, the reason being that it doesn't create a level playing field with state school applicants (because the time & resources that many prep school parents put into extra curricular is not something that some state school families can compete with. If someone is a national swimming star, or musically advanced, or a county tennis champion, that takes significant parental time and money). We were told that the references nowadays are purely about a child's character - their enthusiasm / attitude / aptitude for learning - ie what kind of a child are they going to be to teach / have in your school for the next seven years.

I presume they are references to state schools?

@LondonMum20222 @TypsTrycks do you think they expect a bit 'less' from state school pupils due to the fact they've had fewer opportunities, especially due to covid?

I find myself stressing a bit that DS is at a disadvantage compared to prep school kids, especially wrt schools like Tiffin who don't ask for references or interview at all.

@KindergartenKop As I understand it, all indie schools look at students in the round and will be aware that prep school kids have potentially had a number of academic advantages, and will make adjustments for that when assessing children. I imagine that's not the case with Tiffins as they have so many applicants I suspect they just look at the raw data. Tbh, I don't think there can ever be an entirely fair comparison: some state school applicants will have had 2+ years of intensive one-to-one private tutoring leading up to the 11+. Arguably that's more valuable than being at a prep school. And yet at an independent senior school, they might be given the same allowances as a state school student who's done nothing but a few Bond books at home. It's very far from a perfect system!

@KindergartenKop Tiffins is one of those schools that only look at raw scores. They don’t give much importance to sports/music backgrounds, but I would say that such schools are rare.

It is quite tricky but I would argue that state school students have no disadvantage at the 11+ now, in fact there could be an advantage. Raw scores come into play with state school students in a big way. I disagree on the opportunities available - most county level sportspeople I know go to state schools. My local conservatoire has more state school students than prep school students. The difference is doing activities outside versus in school. Ultimately if you don’t have a national level sportsperson as a child, it hardly deserves a lot of thinking and I would just focus on the exam.

It is a very imperfect system.
NVR is definitely not about innate ability. It can be coached up several points in a short amount of time. Coaching verbal reasoning takes a bit longer - an avid reader from early years onwards with good comprehension typically already has a high verbal reasoning score and just needs to get their head around the types of questions.

State vs prep is only half the picture. I know tons of alpha state parents with exceptional kids in extra curricular and academically. If anything, they had more time as did not have to do every pointless rugby match on the weekend and play in boring school orchestras not at their level.
Actually, the question to often ask is if there is a SAHM alpha mum with a great degree… that tends to make a big difference in my experience.

Isn’t it illegal for state schools like Tiffin to look at anything other than raw score in the admissions test itself?
The exception being in accordance with the state admissions policy, to eg. Rank pupil premium or care etc in a higher order.

God knows what independent schools actually look for… probably compliant kids primarily who will make the most of the school and whose parents are supportive and can pay. That is why admissions will always remain discretionary. You can have a CAT of 141 across the board but if your parents are “off”/don’t fit then they won’t give you a place. Nor will many tell you why you didn’t get a place.
CAT scores, ISEB scores, the lot , taking on their own, are not always a reliable indicator but more of a snapshot on the day. Hence the private schools go for school report too, lengthy admissions tests, interviews - assessing background and character etc.

@Aleaiactaest Senior schools don't interview parents. Parental suitability isn't a factor in 11+ admissions. I don't know if you've visited any independent secondary schools, but "compliant" is the very last thing they're looking for.

Give admissions a buzz and have a chat. They’re usually super friendly

It’s not a parent “interview” 😂

God knows what independent schools actually look for…

what is clear @Aleaiactaest is…. You certainly don’t! 😂

😂😂😂

Haha, so naive to think they are not assessing the parents for anti craziness and affordability factor. Subtly so, of course. However, it definitely happens, in all independent schools. Part of the reason they all ask for references from prep schools is to find out if fees were ever paid late.
Of course the child should be “curious”, hard working, fully engaged in the extra curricular offering of the school etc etc pass the ISEB in the top 30 per cent (whatever their random criteria is), pass the minimum standard on their written tests, speak nicely at interview, look them in the eye. Don’t get me started on the group tests assessing “social skills” which some of them do.

The point being these top independent schools all have their own criteria and process they go through and then they come up with a A list, then a waiting list etc. It isn’t an exact science. They have their meetings to discuss the pupils. They tend to build an overall picture of each child they offer to (and their background). It isn’t down to a CAT score alone. Some will of course exclude at first stage eg Westminster if you are not in the top 20 per cent for ISEB or whatever their percentage is. They simply have too many applicants per place.

OP’s child has excellent CAT scores and should be fine. Only if he majorly flunks the English paper will the verbal reasoning score become a problem. So my advice is to work on his English. And whatever reasoning test they will give him.

@Aleaiactaest

Genuine question - what is your experience with independent schools? As a student? Teacher? Parent?