How much choice should they have about future school?

[TerrorPin]

My son is due to start secondary school in 2010. Our 'catchment' schools are really bad but apart from that, I REALLY wanted him to go to the voluntary aided boys school in the city centre. There is no catchment for it, just an interview and test...the test is apparantly a way of ensuring that they get a mixture of abilities and not just the brightest kids but I don't know how true that is.

Anyway I really had my heart set on him going there, since he was a toddler really and he seemed to be fine with the idea but then all of a sudden he decided he wanted to go to another school, he doesn't seem to have a reason, none of his friends will be going there, it doesn't have a "great" name although it is a good school but there really is no special reason he wants to go...he just liked the look of it!

I was going to move into the area to get a better chance of getting him in but now I'm wondering if I should go ahead with my original plan and try and get him in the voluntary aided boys school...despite his wishes.

I genuinly feel it would be a much better school for him.

So, should I do what he wants or do what I think is best for him?

Have you looked round the schools?
I chose a secondary for my kids that I had never considered, until the open evening. It had such a warm, inviting atmosphere.

He is of the right age to be able to sabotage your plans if you try to force him into anything, so I'd try involving him more rather than less. Get him to consider the school choice in greater dept - do some research on subjects, other activities and facilities at the schools, really think about what his opportunities might be each school, and justify his preference. In the process, he is likely to convert either himself or you - it's at least worth a try. If you make him apply to the VA school against his wishes, it is entirely within his power to mess up the interview or write rude words all over the test.

I was worried about him sabotaging the interview, I must admit.

If he had some logical reason for wanting to go I would be more understanding but everytime I ask why he wants to go there he just says "I dunno"

Its so annoying and frustrating at this stage because if I want him to go to the school of his choice we need to move...but even if we move we're not guaranteed a place....but if we stay here and doesn't get into the VA school they could try and force us to send him to the local comp which...to be honest would result in him being home schooled.

How early can you start arranging visits around secondary schools? he's 9 at the moment.

Lots of people take their children round open days when they're in Year 5 or even earlier. You can ring the school and ask for an appointment at any time - the worst they can do is say no.

You need to point out that he has to take the matter seriously. It may help if you at least pretend to be willing to consider his case if he makes a good enough one . If he doesn't already know the consequence of getting into neither of the two schools, lay it on thick.

Well I've told him about the local comp and err...maybe I was a little graphic but the end result is that he is terrified of getting a place there which suits me fine (he'd never really go there, I'd just home school if it came to that). I've gone on about how great the VA school is...how he's be able to go to McDonalds for his lunch etc but for some mad reason he's still adament on this very normal secondary school thats just out of our catchment.

I think its "maybe" because his cousins are there but one of them is being bullied and they're both leaving the year he starts anyway!

If I give them a ring, are they likely to tell me what chance I have of getting him in or is it too early to say?

I doubt they'd tell you what your chances are. However, it might be worth ringing the school to arrange an appointment to look around.

It doesn't sound from what you say that there is any certainty about a place at the VA school, even if you could persuade your son it was the better choice. Would it be worth moving anyway, to give yourself an acceptable fallback? Or are you keen on home educating?

yes I think we should move anyway, I really don't want to home-school but it would be preferable to him going to the local comp. It really is a terrible school...its not unusual to see police cars and ambulances parked outside its reception.

I'm planning on moving into the catchment of the school he wants to go to...then maybe putting the VA school down as first choice, DS's choice down as second and whatever is the next best thing in 3rd?

The thing is, your son can only be what, 8 or 9 now? A child that age cannot make decisions on education, they're not looking at the same things and they're not looking for any longer-term.

My children have had class visits to their potential secondary school when they were in Year 5, so aged 9 or at most 10. Most of them came back impressed or not impressed with things as diverse as the school meals, the uniform, one particular teacher they met, one particular lesson that day (and of course they were all hands-on 'selling the school' type of lessons), one building they liked or disliked... the list goes on.

And of course the old chestnut of their best friend going to one particular school, whereas in my experience many friendships don't last many months into secondary school.

Of course you have to consult your son and listen to his views, but it sounds like he doesn't really have any real reasons! Take him to visit the potential schools (even perhaps one or more of the 'really bad' schools, you might be surprised!). Talk to him about what you thought about each one and how your views were similar or different. Try to find parents/children at the various schools and sound out their views, and perhaps get the children to talk to your son.

But ultimately you are the parent and I think have to have the last decision. Especially if his 'preferred' school would involve a house move - that's a huge family decision to make on the whim of a child in Year 4 who doesn't really know anything about the school or why he wants to go there, particularly if he still might not get in!

Police cars aren't unusual outside secondary schools - pupils can be victims as well as perpetrators of crime, particularly as many carry mobile phones and other valuable items. I wouldn't read too much into their presence. It sounds as if you have heard other bad things about your school though.

Is it worth arranging for your son to have a chat to his cousins about what the school he prefers is really like?

Don't think of it as sabotaging the interview, just being honest.

"Why do you want to come to this school?"

"I don't. My mum wants me to. I'd much rather go to ."

"Erm, thank you. Next!"

You may find that he matures a lot within the next year and these things become easier to discuss. 9 is still very young. Presumably you don't have to put in the application until the beginning of Year 6, when you may well find he has started thinking more about his future. I find there is a big difference between Yr 5 and Yr 6 in this respect; Yr 5 are still babies.

my children didnt get a say in what school they went to i think the idea is completely ridiculous.

i remember bullyig my mum into letting me g to the school where my friends were going - it turned out that after a year tey wern't my friends anymore.

ifmy on asked to go to another school - i would say "sory you cant only people who live in xxx streets can go tere" or some other tenous excuse tat you can thn of

yes i would lie - what kid knows about catchmnt areas and schools admission policy - you can easily bulshit

We would never even have considered DS's school until we heard they had technology/science status and they took 10% on aptitude tests. This was when we were doing the rounds in Year 6.
We went round the school and DS loved it and so did we. Thankfully he got in.
DS liked and disliked the same schools as we did. There is no way I could have sent him to a school he hated.
My DD is in Year 5 and we will be doing the rounds in September. Thankfully she likes DS's school but we will give her a chance to look around other schools.

I would give mine next to no input. You are the adult they are 10. many kids will want to go to school X because the prefer the uniform, or because their mates are there. In reality mates change, and while the uniform might be a bore at least it gives them something healthy to whinge about.

If everything else is equal, go with their choice. If not, go with what you think is best for them

I gave mine no choice at all, it was one of the few things I felt really strongly about regarding education. They both hated me for the whole first term but by the second they were really happy there. I had a really bad feeling about one school and a really good feeling about the one I chose and was fairly indifferent/realistic about travel to the others.

Not the most scientific approach and I didn't consult league tables or anything.

I told mine very clearly at age 8 that we would decide school for them, because we are the adults, we have the most experience, we love them and have their best interests at heart and we can make a better decision than them.

Of course we have put 'positive spin' on schools so that we don't end up with major rebellion on our hands, but that's not difficult to swing when they are 8 or 9.

Most children will express preferences on schools based on:

• Where their mates are going (Most children at our school have formed completely new friendship groups after just a term in secondary)
• What food was on offer at open day
• How exciting the science demos were on open eve
• What the uniform is like
• How much homework you get (according to gossip)

None of these are particularly sound reasons for the basis of a judgement that can affect your entire life.

custardo: "my children didnt get a say in what school they went to i think the idea is completely ridiculous."

My parents gave me the final say in both the big school decisions which affected me (whether to skip P6 and which secondary to go to). I think children are perfectly capable of making sensible and informed decisions. Of course, they have to be informed.

Ubergeekian - lol @ the interview - my DS1 has an interview this afternoon at his number 2 choice school, our number 1 choice. He has already been offered a place at his preferred school, so we have a subtle campaign this weekend of bigging up OUR preferred school. I think his normal politeness will mean he doesn't deliberately say he prefers the other school - but it depends how the question is put...

TerrorPin - have you looked round your local "awful" school?You may be pleasantly surprised. (or you may have all your worset fears realized!)
It's not uncommon to see police cars and ambulances outside my dd's incredibly "respectable' girls grammar school - children are the victims of crime, police come to give talks on all kinds of stuff, and 1440 children doing lots of sport have accidents. (Mind you the last ambulance they had was because dd's friend sewed her finger to her cushion cover!)