St John's Senior Private School (Enfield)

[AlmondMilkTea]

Hello!
Would really appreciate some recent info on this school (old threads from 2017 noted). Considering future secondary options for my DS and state options are limited (and catchment options are quite bad) where we are and also this is the only private secondary option in the Enfield area that we're aware of.

Ofsted reviewed...interesting that it was requires improvement....now outstanding...

Anyone able to list pros/cons? Website info is quite limited and no advertised open days (I plan to email them and ask).

Thanks so much

@Meadowbreeze have you seen Queenswood's SEN dept? They have their own dedicated building. Has your DD done a taster day at any of the schools? Also, have you considered St Margaret's Bushey?

@Meadowbreeze We're probs too far - last 3 yrs furthest distance data is 0.3 miles which is ridiculous. Lots of rejected applications and very few (if any) appeals granted.

Why did the happy child leave at 7+ seeing as they were clearly doing well academically?

Grades seem pretty average for the borough but definitely "incredible" in comparison to other schools in the area (e.g. Lee Valley!)

Sorry to hear about your DD's school.

@AlmondMilkTea The family got an inheritance, moved west of the borough and into private. I'm sure if their budgets were the same as pre inheritance they would've stayed put. I was just amazed that they got the kid up to a 7+ standard for the N London Indies.
@Soma not a taster day, but she did go in to sit tests and we got offers. Queenswood seems the most apprehensive about taking her on and we are still waiting to see if she will be offered a space. She is a scrape a 4 student with lots of support, not a 6 or 7, if you get what I mean. DD started GCSEs in year 9 so we've not even looked at schools that have different exam boards/subjects. These 3 were kind of matching at a push.

Thanks @XelaM ....really useful info. I got the sense football was a big deal.
DS is not really into football - more into athletics which annoyingly doesn't feature much in any school. What were they like with communication? I am quite surprised by how basic the website is...

@AlmondMilkTea Their website reminded me so much of Sussex house prep and Trevor Roberts before they updated it. Both very exclusive. Maybe that's the vibe they're going for lol.

Ohhhh didn't realise that was a thing! LOL

i also go into Enfield schools (and some Barnet) as part of my job. Both Wrens overly strict, no pastoral care unless a very high achiever that they will want to hold onto. Ark John Keats overly strict, pastoral care ok. Pastoral care at Edmonton county very good. Don’t know much about the independents, my friends daughter went to mount house enjoyed her time there

Sorry, will reply individually in a bit, but here's a short pros and cons list about St John's (my personal opinion):

What I found great:

The grounds are gorgeous. Acres and acres of beautiful parkland, fields and ponds. They used to even have horses there in the past, but don't have them anymore. I found it quite therapeutic spending time there and you really see what you're paying for.

The kids are very nice. All the ones I have met have been lovely, polite and the parents (those I have met) were also very nice and normal. The majority of kids are quite studious.

All homework always gets marked and there are constant tests and assessments to ensure kids don't fall behind. The teachers have high standards and are very strict on bad behaviour.

GCSE results are great especially considering it's not extremely selective.

Price/sports - it's the cheapest of of the London independent secondaries as far as I know because they get subsidised by Arsenal football club I believe (although I'm not 100% sure on this). There are a number of footballer's kids there and many kids play in the Arsenal academy. They are the U12 National champions. Although they also do a lot of athletics, so it might actually suit an athletics kid. There is even a bit of horse riding at Trent Park.

The family that owns the school clearly care about it a lot and invest a lot of money in its facilities. The sports hall and changing rooms for example are brand new and clean. They are building new classrooms and a new library and the sixth form building is beautiful with a pool and fitness studio. All grounds and facilities are very well-maintained.

The bus service is amazing. It's door-to-door and the driver even agreed to drop my daughter off at her out-of-school activity in the afternoon (although it was close to the school). It's really convenient.

They do great trips abroad and even did an amazing ski trip during the more uncertain times when most other schools cancelled theirs.

It's small and quite intimate and the Head gets to know all the kids.

That's interesting! Gosh this really is tricky. So comparing Wren Enfield and Ark John Keats then...of course there's the faith element which differs...but also serving slightly different populations of Enfield socially....but overall, which has a sense of being an all-round better school from your internal observations?

I am closer to AJK...but...the catchment for Wren is wider (at the moment)...

@XelaM Thanks for taking the time to share this.. actually sounds great and makes me more inclined to arrange a visit now....
Keen to hear the cons too...🙈🙉

Op I would say AJK but do try and speak to current pupils and see what they say about it. have you thought about Chase Community?

@kkneat Mmmm wasn't expecting that!

Had ruled out Chace as was "requires improvement " but just googled them and seen they had an ofsted this yr which is "good"....

My list was getting too long, so I split my posts in two. I mentioned the pros above and here are the cons of St John's (that I found):

There are only lunch-time clubs (no after-school clubs), so you can't stay later than 16:20 (not sure if this applies to sixth formers though).

The Head is marmite. I know many parents who say that his father (who passed away before we came to the school) was a much better Head. I personally got on well with him though. He can come across as a bit arrogant, but I never had any bad experiences with him at all. He clearly cares very much about the school. Some kids/parents really don't like him though (not 100% sure why). If you go for an interview with him you get a sense of whether you will get on or not. Like I say, I personally never had any issues with him.

It's very boy-heavy. Definitely more boys than girls and given that it's a small school there are not that many girls to choose from for friendships (not an issue if you have a boy). My daughter was friends with kids from older years though and as it's a small school, everyone knows each other.

It's very traditional and strict. The teachers don't tolerate even a hint of bad behaviour and my daughter used to constantly get into trouble/get detentions. She's quite chatty and not studious though.

I believe they are strict on what GCSEs can be taken and there isn't such a wide choice, although you can speak to the Head about additional GCSEs as far as I know.

It's not that well-known. I think they pride themselves on being quite "exclusive".

At the end of the day, my daughter didn't like the strictness and the ugly uniform (which she said was uncomfortable, especially the winter uniform) and the kids in her form were all a bit too serious and different to her. But then if I were at school today, I don't think my daughter would be friends with me 😂 The wish to change schools came from her, especially as some of her outside-school friends went to the other school. I was quite happy with St John's.

@OP is Haileybury College too far for you? Both day and boarding though err's on the side of boarding more but plenty day students .brilliant school with right balance of academics and pastoral care. It's closer to you than St Edmunds and has a better academics too although both are good schools. Haileybury also offers both A'Levels and the IB if that's of interest in future.

@XelaM you are a wealth of knowledge! Thank you. We are trying to escape an overly strict school so this doesn't sound like anything up Dd's street. If you have any info on Mill Hill or Queenswood would you mind sharing? I don't want to hijack ops thread. I'm happy to DM.

My daughter's best friend from primary is at Queenswood and is super happy. We didn't choose it at the end because I wanted co-ed and it was one of the (if not thee) most expensive of the schools we had offers from. The facilities are amazing and if your daughter is sporty- there's no limit to the opportunities she can get there. They constantly have the girls do something extra-curricular and there is apparently an endless choice of what they can do. The pastoral care is very good and the girls are apparently very friendly. They get good results without being a hothouse. And also have a door-to-door bus service plus the option of boarding/flexi-boarding. I haven't heard anything bad about the school at all.

You are apparently bombarded with numerous daily emails by the school about constant events at Queenswood so beware 😅

@XelaM Yh it's the most expensive for us too. In a way I don't mind as it'll only be 2 years for us and we've saved lots staying put in state. DD is not academic enough for a levels and Indies don't offer vocational courses so I'm confident we will only need to pay 1.5 years of fees which is very doable.
Their apprehension is making me like them the most. We've found far too many non or gently selective schools, say yes to everything but when it comes down to it it's all just words. Im not getting that vibe from them at all. DD is in a competitive swimming team and the only con I can see is she would struggle to go to training with their late finishes.
Do you have any other suggestions you might know about?

@Tonty thanks for the suggestion..just googled...a little far but fees are defo outside the budget...looks like a great school though.

Speaking of distance...how far is considered reasonable for travelling to private school? ....how does this affect friendships? I get the impression that families are far more willing for their children to trek further for private schools (for obvious reasons) but when discussing state schools a lot is said about being local for friendship purposes....

@AlmondMilkTea In my experience kids are normally in specific areas. For example a bunch will be in winchmore hill, crouch end, a bit of Highgate etc and than all go into one school. So children will make friends with kids that are localish to them.
Depending on the actual route, 1hr is an average commute. If by coach, its often longer. Remember these kids tend to stay on school longer so the after school friendship bonding you might have, takes place in school. Queenswood for example, busses don't leave till around 6pm. That's what time is normally be leaving my friend's house to go home if I went to hers after school. St John's is unusual in how early they finish.

@Meadowbreeze just out of curiosity...what's led you to choosing private school vs staying in state and getting a really good tutor? Are things quite bad at the state school that meant you couldn't imagine staying any longer?

Given you only have 18 months left and you don't think your DD will stay on for A-levels I'm just wondering why such a big move for such a short amount of time?

Wow that's really late!! Do they do homework in school? Surely there's no way they can do it at home if getting back so late!

Ah- I see what you mean about them clustering with the people from their area.

@AlmondMilkTea Good questions. We'd been thinking about it for a while. My DD has an ehcp, not because of super high need but an anomaly. Our borough doesn't fund speech and lang support past the age of 7 without one, so we have it on that technicality. She is quite bright but has a language processing disorder and dyslexia. If she is in a small class of kids or even a big class of kids who are behaving, she does really well. She did brilliantly for a while until our senco left. All support has been taken away. She has no TA, has been put into classes in the lowest set full of kids who have also had all their support taken and are now lashing out.
If it was just academics, sure we'd just get a tutor. She's struggling mentally with it. Her school is incredibly strict and she keeps getting into trouble for the silliest things. I could go on and on but I'm desperate to get her a more enjoyable 2 years. I feel like this won't end well if she stays where she is. We previously loved the school and I recommend it a lot on here, so I'm sad about it all. Funding cuts are no joke at the moment.

@AlmondMilkTea the homework question is one I've asked queenswood as the length of day worries me. My Dad's friend who is on the Mill hill bus for over an hour and doesn't get home till 7ish, does it at lunch or on the coach home. I'm assuming that will be the case with queenswood.

My DDs friends. Not my dad's friend lol. We have also narrowed it down to Mill Hill and Queens wood because my DD already has friends there from her sport. She really likes them and knows their friends too from parties etc, so it wouldn't really be that big of a move. I don't think I'd be doing this if that wasn't the case though. Her friends are very studious and academic though so im conscious her experience will be different and wanted to find out more info, hence going on here.