Help! Totally stuck on a VR question..

[Startwiththerecorder]

Practising with DD and we are totally stuck on a number relationship question.

Can anyone tell us the answer?! We don't have an answer sheet available sadly.

(2[24]3) (4[120]7) and (6[??]2)

What is the missing number? Will
I ever sleep again?

Add the numbers together, square, then minus 1.

2+3=5
5x5=25
25-1=24

4+7=11
11x11=121
121-1=120

6+2=8
8x8=64
64-1=63

Add them, square the total, subtract 1

Superstars. Amazing. You've saved me from a restless night.

Quite challenging for a 10 year old to work out (not to mention a 42 year old haha)

I’ve been tutoring 11+ for nine years now and this is definitely up there as one of the hardest questions I’ve come across.

And a bit pointless, putting maths questions in brackets is ridiculous. Maths brackets have specific meanings.

Yes, it’s as if 11+ has a language all of its very own. Sometimes knowing more advanced techniques can be a hindrance I’ve found.

Thank you @MourningEveryone , it is reassuring to know someone with your 11+ experience considered this a hard question.

Difficult to prepare DD for this question type particularly, but will continue to reinforce trying all basic operations and adding squaring of sums to that.

God am I glad I got my O level Maths when I did! Can anyone explain to this mathematically challenged befuddled grumpy old woman what everyday use that type of thing has for ordinary folk?? (I'm presuming for things like design and engineering it's probably useful...?)

It’s a goat/sheep sorting exercise, disguised as a “maths” question. Unless you are the headteacher of a school that specialises in the education of goats or sheep, or the parent of a goat or possibly a sheep (whichever is the smartest, I can’t remember ) it is a question that has no relevance. I would like to see these present day goats and sheep working out proper sums like buying a gross of pencils priced at 6d and three farthings. That would sort them! 😐

I'd say absolutely none which is why this kind of things doesn't appear on GCSE maths.
What is does do is test flexibility of thinking (and quality of tutoring one might also say) which is what 11+ is partly looking for.

Is it bad that I understand the goats analogy way better than the, er, Maths question???

I never thought I was lacking in creative thinking ability (or formal education) until now. I guess I should just be very thankful I've never encountered the modern 11 plus...!

@Avrenim I gave my DD's Bond books to her nan to do as puzzles when DD and I decided not to bother with the 11+ exam and sent her to the local comp instead.

Some of them are better for your mental agility than the daily sudoku or Wordl!

If it's any consolation, I have a maths degree and couldn't see the answer quick enough to not get bored and read lower down the thread to find it.
It's questions like this which shows why a certain level of tutoring / practice is needed for the 11+. If you have never come across similar questions before you don't know what kind of thing to look for.

Anyone watch Only Connect? It's the same kind of thing. It starts off as gibberish, but the more you watch the more into the mind of the question setters you get, and slowly you can start to get some of the answers.

I don’t know where you live or what sort of school(s) you’re targeting. However it’s not uncommon, especially amongst the top private schools in London, for there to be a question or two per paper which stumps most adults. I even remember a bunch of teachers all huddled together in the staff room one lunchtime being driven crazy by one trial and error question.

Just remember that you don’t need 100% to pass and sometimes even much, much less will do. Another consideration is that many private schools offer scholarships to a tiny number of students and need some questions which will identify these.

Thank you, yes it’s London and independent schools we are targeting, reassuring to know questions like these are likely to be the odd ones out and hopefully many will be more manageable! Thank you for your advice.