Dd unsure about her A level choices

[LaCerbiatta]

Dd is bright and ambitious and did very well in her GCSEs.

She likes Sciences and chose Maths, further Maths, Chemistry and Physics. She really liked Biology up to year 10, but got a bit desilusioned with it after doing the first mocks and realising that to do well she had to write things up in a certain way.

She's now wondering if she's made a mistake and should have chosen Biology and is considering dropping further maths and adding Biology instead. Dh and I think that if she wants something like biochemistry she can keep what she has and just pick up the bio side later on. We think if she can do further maths it would be a real advantage. But.... we weren't educated in this country and know very little 😁

Any experience? Advice? Thanks so much!

Four A Levels are not required in this country. The only time it might be sensible is where one of them is further maths but even then its not required and she could just do maths, further maths and physics.

Four A Levels will be a mistake if it means getting for example 4 A grades rather than two A stars and an A

What does she want to do next? You mention biochemistry, but is that coming from her?

Did she get 9s in all of those subjects?

She doesn't know what she wants to do next, that's the problem! Biochemistry was an example really of something she might be interested in with a bio component.

She had 9s in all of them except for further maths in which she had 8

That's really helpful point, thanks. I think we need to reinforce the idea that 4 is not better than 3.

She couldn't do just 3 with further maths though, not sure if it's just her school but with further maths you always need 4 due to the high percentage of drop outs

DS's school does not allow FM as one of three as it's too narrow and restrictive.

What is her concern- is it that she's going to struggle with FM or that she actively wishes she had done biology?

I don't think anyone can really assist if she doesn't know what she wants to do. its just down to personal preference and which she enjoys more.

A level biology also does have to be written in a certain way, so if that's a deal breaker she shouldn't do it. But if Biochem is a possibility she really needs to do it - she won't necessarily be able to 'just pick it up later'.

So she has a choice to make - very very quickly. A levels are five term courses, and she's already missed almost half a term of teaching - 10% - if she wants to switch.

Will school support 4 A'levels if one isn't further maths? Its very unusual. its what I did nearly 40 years ago

Thanks. It's not a deal breaker, was just trying to explain why she ended up not choosing it even though it was one of her favourites up to year 10.

Biochemistry actually does not ask for Biology so she could just pick it up later..
That's what I think anyway...

But yes, ultimately she needs to know what she likes!

She's in a very academic school probably with quite a few high achievers doing 4 but they don't encourage it. They've told her it's not a great idea

Some do ask for Bio though eg
https://www.exeter.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/biosciences/biochem/#entry-requirements and
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/degrees/biochemistry-bsc

So she'd be restricting her choices very early on by not taking it.

Many schools will only allow four of one is further maths, but I don't know if any that would take three with further maths being one of them (my daughter moved schools for sixth form so looked at lots of schools and their offered combinations).
I don't think she should drop FM and add Biology - it's a lot of work and four A levels are not required.
The better way is to look at possible degree courses and see what they ask for or what most student taking that course did.

Maths and three sciences is really bloody tough. (M,FM, P & C is pretty tough but significantly less so than other “4s” assuming you love maths.)

It really depends what she wants to do. Her current combination is best for Maths, Physics, Engineering, Comp Sci. Adding biology is better for biology & biochemistry. And probably medicine although her current combination is fine.

The other option is she does Maths, Physics and Chem, totally focused on 3 A stars and has a much more enjoyable Sixth form.

For a lot of science degrees, biology is the least useful A Level - I did English, History, Biology but would not have been able to do a science degree (which I knew, I just loved biology!).

Check the sorts of courses she might be interested in, but you may well find that biology isn’t required.

This is very true. I have a DD doing biochemistry at uni and both her firm and insurance choices (Bath and St Andrews) wanted chemistry and biology.

Wrong. You’re ignoring the fact that someone with four A levels has actually LEARNED MORE STUFF. Man, everyone gets so obsessed with university entrance requirements that they forget the point of school is to actually LEARN STUFF.

Anyway, OP, they all sound like great options and only your DD can decide, unless she is v keen on a medical/vet career I’d be inclined to do further maths but that’s just me, please ask her school for advice and ignore Mumsnet - this is too important to be decided by a bunch of social media randoms who are all playing on the internet in the middle of a working day ;)

I'd recommend she spends a few hours browsing alevel textbooks or revision guides to get a better sense of the curriculum. They can be quite different to gcse. All her options are great choices so she should just see which of them sparks more interest in her.

please ask her school for advice and ignore Mumsnet - this is too important to be decided by a bunch of social media randoms who are all playing on the internet in the middle of a working day ;)

Aw bless - you've forgotten that we're largely professionals with experience of schools, universities and many professions that require degrees. We're passing on the benefit of that immense wealth of experience, not playing on the internet.

I very much doubt OP's dd will be making decisions solely based on what MN says.

And whilst I generally applaud the sentiment that education is valuable in its own right, it's vital to take a longer term view, and to miss out on a desired uni place because of an insistence on studying for its own sake and ignoring sensible advice, would be a tragedy.

@Ithoughtthiswastherehearsal completely agree with what titchy has to say. Our combined knowledge comes from many of us having children older than the OP's child, although my youngest is in year 12 themselves. Asking advice on MN from parents who have experience of university applications is a wise decision. Not all sixth forms are the best at knowing about university applications themselves and sometimes use budgeting, staffing and personal bias to influence children's decisions on their A levels. Also why assume everyone has a 9-5 job?

Statistically the number of students taking 4 A levels is only 4.3% (that is from the .gov site for 2019) from memory I think half of all 4th A levels are further maths. 68% of students take 3 A levels. It is much better to ace out 3 A levels than get lower grades with 4. Achieving higher grades means more university courses are open to you. Further maths is useful for maths, physics and computer science degrees. Even though a university won't specifically state that they want further maths, their entry admission statistics are absolutely an indicator that they prefer it. This is knowledge that is often found on MN but not on the university's entry grade page.

I wholeheartedly agree that learning is great, it doesn't just happen in a classroom though and again as titchy says, you have to take the long term view when doing A levels.

Thanks all, this is really helpful advice! And of course dd won't go with what mn are saying but she will take on different perspectives (especially if different than mum and dad's!!) and hopefully this will put her off any ideas if swapping FM for Biology!

As many of you have said, she needs to know what she likes! And if she likes physics, chemistry, biology in that order then it's biology that is out as it's probably the more limiting one.

@Ithoughtthiswastherehearsal I know exactly what you mean! Makes me so sad sometimes that schools are not for learning, they're just exams machines. But unfortunately they're all competing with each other and need to play the game or miss out.....

Her current combination is best for Maths, Physics, Engineering, Comp Sci.

And also for Chemistry, of course - while FM isn't required for it, there's quite a few branches of it which are very mathsy.

Her current combination of A-levels keeps the door open for many pathways, including maths, physics, chemistry, materials science, engineering, computer science and others.

My son took those A-levels and is now studying Natural Sciences. The course has given him the option of studying a range of sciences including physics, chemistry or materials science (and if he had chosen it, earth sciences or indeed biochemistry or any of the biology modules, none of which required Biology A-level). He has chosen to specialise into a physics degree, but could have chosen any of the others.

If your daughter enjoys maths and science, and likes problem solving, I'd recommend having a look at Natural Sciences.

All four of his A-levels were useful / necessary for his application and for accessing the course material, particularly Further Maths. There workload of Maths / Further Maths / Physics / Chemistry was easily manageable and a good preparation for the first year of university, when the workload was more challenging.

Biology as a 4th is just so much work! It's a "high volume" A level. But, if I were suddenly interested in biochemistry I would be very much wanting learn about Biology.

How does she feel about the Maths and Physics? If she were picking A levels again would she choose Biology over either of them? If so then maybe a chat with a Biology teacher would be in order, and a temp period of doing 4 then dropping her least preferred one. I would steer her away from committing to all 4 long term I think, unless her school sets modest amounts of homework, which is unlikely at a very academic school. 4 including FM is hard enough. If biology is still resoundingly 4th after Maths Chem Physics then I'd be encouraging her to leave it I think.

I'd do biology. I did all three sciences and never regretted it. Maths is not a fun subject, and I've never seen jobs specifically requiring it. It's one of those subjects where you're either a god and get noticed or you blend...