London Oratory vs local schools

[padsi1975]

Hi. Looking for a range of opinions from people with no 'skin in the game' as it were. My child is in year 6 so we are about to apply for secondary schools. We have 3 options and I'm struggling. 1. London Oratory (top 3% for gcse, top 14% for a levels, 79% grade 5 or above in English and Maths at GCSE), as we are Catholic. Unlikely we would get a place as it's very oversubscribed but, ignoring that for now, the pros are that it has excellent gcse and a level results. Son loved it at the tour. Cons are that it is other side of London (an hour and two tubes away). I'm worried about him commuting so young (he could travel with one other who already attends the junior school there), how exhausting it would be, what would happen when tubes are down and the fact that he'd have no local friends. I asked some of the students about that when I was there and they shrugged it off, saying they meet centrally (but that's no good really until he is older. 2. Local catholic school ( top 7% for gcse, bottom 48% for a levels, 68% grade 5 or above in English and Maths at GCSE). One bus ride away. Good GCSE results, awful A level results. I was left cold at the open evening, it was chaotic , I couldn't even hear the head teacher's talk as it was so packed and loud (younger kids making noise, etc). 3. Local state comp (top 14% GCSE, bottom 36% A levels, 63% grade 5 or above English & Maths at GCSE). Walking distance. I liked it. They made a big effort and it was well organised. Very impressive drama and music departments. Friend's son told me the sport is excellent. Neighbour's kid told me the teachers are rubbish. : ) It's the weakest academically. I just don't know what to do. I went to a very poor school with low aspiration and I feel like it really held me back and had a long term impact on me. So I'm heavily biased here due to my own experience. I want my son to be happy but I also want an aspirational environment where he thrives. I'm not from UK and I feel a bit at sea. Grade 5 or above, it's not like that really tells me anything, I'd hope he would do a lot better than grade 5. Colleagues all send their kids private or grammar and are very sniffy about state comps so they are no help. Can any parents with experience of the secondary system opine please? Thanks.

You’re right that grade 5+ isn’t a terribly useful measure. Look instead at the progress 8 measure on the government’s performance tables. Only 2019 is currently available, but in this year the Oratory got 0.54. That means that students made on average half a grade’s more progress from KS2 to KS4 in comparison with other schools. The higher the P8, the more value the school added.

I wouldn’t worry too much about sixth form outcomes at this point. There’s always a lot of movement post 16 in London.

Thank you thanksithaspockets. I appreciate all responses as I feel very confused.

I'm not from the UK either, and it sounds like you are in a similar position I was in.
We also liked the Oratory and had it on our list. My son didn't get in and instead went to the local Catholic secondary school , which was shunned by most other parents in our son's primary school.
I didn't understand why as it seemed like a good option to me.
I realised later that it was the middle class parents that didn't like it. Up until then I had never consciously been aware of the English class system at play.
(I would describe the catholic secondary my son went to as mainly working class)
Fast forward 10 or so years, and my son left sixth form with 3 A's, graduated with a high 2:1 and a first in his dissertation. His friends who went to the Oratory received mainly the same grades. (One with higher grades, two with lower ones)
In summary, I think:

• Most secondary schools in London are fine.
• don't let yourself get swept up by the (mainly) middle class hysteria when it comes to school choice
• yes, schools are of course very important in shaping your child, but we as parents still have a massive influence, even on teenage children
• I'm very happy we got allocated the local secondary, the education was absolutely fine and I massively appreciated not having to traipse across town for parents evenings, or when I wanted to see teachers, or just for my son's ease of commute (and the shortness of it)

Best of luck!

Oh thank you Viktoria, that is really helpful! I listened to some parents the other day and they were all a bit condescending about the state comp and, basically, the class of student that goes there. I looked it up and the vast majority of the intake are from the local and well regarded primaries (the ones that the kids of these parents attend) so I was baffled. There's just this presumption that the state comp is rougher. I find the UK class system discombobulating. Thanks for your story, I appreciate it.

Thank you for such an intelligent post, Victoria. I am in a very similar position, surrounded by highly aspirational middle-class (well, 'wealthy' describes them better) parents, and I just want to do the best for my son as he is now. I will try Oratory and Cardinal Vaughn, but I do not hold much hope. I have two reasonably good, well-equipped comprehensives near me and I feel rather reassured.

@padsi1975 @gracijela just wondering if you have decided what you are putting down on the CAF?

I'm thinking

1. London Oratory
2. Vaughn
3. Local option which is Ofsted requires improvement

If by a slim chance we get London Oratory I'm worried about the commute, even the walk from West Brompton station down Seagrave Road seems like a trek to me for a Year 7.

Year 7s must be doing this daily, do they just get used to it and have friends from their class also walking to station so really not a big deal do you think?

I'm really not sure what to do!

@BigUpAllOfUshereOnMN My listing is remarkably similar to yours. ;) I am not however worried about the walk as I think it's only about 5 minutes long. Both Vaughn and LO are ridiculously oversubscribed and I'd be very happy if we got either. The lottery-like allocation of places done by an independent body is still a bit of a mystery to me.
And, yes, the local comprehensive which requires improvement is our safest bet, so we'll probably list it third.

@gracijela thanks for your reply. Good luck with getting either of your top 2 choices. We have just got to try haven't we. It's going to be a long wait until March. I hope luck will be on our side!

If you’re looking at the Oratory have you also considered Wimbledon College?

@KiwiMum2023 thanks so much for your suggestion .....off now to do some research on WC ....

And depending on how far south you are, Richard Challoner too?

@KiwiMum2023 We are in NW London so I am afraid Wimbledon is too far.

I am rather late to this party but thought I'd mention that I left Upper Sixth at this school in June 2022 after 7 years there so would be happy to give some info.
My commute into school was a little under an hour, catching 2 trains if all went well and though this was daunting, I adapted to it pretty well as did other students who lived further away. I attended open days for prospective first form and lower sixth last year, as a Senior Prefect and I mentioned that one of the biggest positives of the school indisputably is its catholic ethos. The school was monumental to allow me to deepen my faith, due to RE lessons, the ability to always pop into the chapel and weekly rosaries, masses and confessions with the school chaplain.
That's not to say it pushed its ethos constantly on everyone but simply that you always have the option if you so wish. I have since joined the Catholic Society at university.
The educational aspect is certainly important and I would advise ensuring your son was ready for the test they undergo if they are successful in achieving a place at the school (at least this is what they did back in 2015 when I joined). The reason I say this is because your son will be streamed into one of six houses and these houses are immensely important given your son will be having form period, eating with and having every lesson with the fellow members of his houses for the first 2 years at the school. There was a big disparity in behavior I found between the top and bottom house, due to this streaming and though by 3rd form subjects began to be organized into sets rather than houses, they were still important for getting there.
Walking down Seagrave Road, as someone said, is about a 10 min walk and absolutely not a problem, especially given that many students come down Seagrave Road to get to school.
Some people have bemoaned the discipline instilled by the school, I have not known anything else and think its important to keep your uniform tidy and arrive and submit homework on time, though the penalties can involve some hefty detentions if they stack up. I'd almost encourage more discipline in some classes!
Final point, the system for getting a place is by random allocation. However, there are some factors which will gain you more points and a greater chance of getting in such as having a sibling at the school. Most prospective first formers, including myself, did not but we still got places.
All the best

sorry for hijacking’s a bit… did you mean Wimbeldon college. Isn’t it the one that’s a Jesuit college?

It’s a Jesuit owned school in Wimbledon, 11-18, although the head teacher is lay, not a priest.

@OldOratorian would you mind if I PM you regarding some of your comments here. My son has been offered a place for September, but I’m concerned about the banding situation.
Thank you