Extreme reaction to discipline- how do I help my son and what should i ask school for?

[Nidan2Sandan]

My DS is 11yo and has extreme anxiety and will self harm whenever he is upset or distressed. This is in the form of him pulling his hair, punching himself till he bruises or scratching till he bleeds. He also goes into a state of pure panic, hyper ventilated, the works.

Primary worked really well with him and referred him to CAHMS last year whereby we had one telephone consult and were told he needs more intensive treatment/ counselling g, but the wait in our area for CAHMS is 3 years for these.

He was soooooo excited for secondary, found out there is an award for no behaviour points each year and wanted this.

Week 2 he said he was listening to assembly and was really excited by them saying about how you can do well in life, how to achieve big things and I guess basically a big positive pep talk. He said he liked what they said so much he clapped and he got told off for this and got a behaviour point.

This meant his next lesson in French he was distressed and harming himself. The teacher told him to get a grip and kicked him out of class. Queue him even more distressed and he gave himself a black eye by hitting his head against a door handle.

Today he got a behaviour point for answering a question without putting his hand up first. He was again distressed and pulled his hair and has scratched his face to the point its bled.

Whilst I absolutely support the school to discipline children, and I'm aware there may be more to the story than what I know so far, as his Mum this all feels very heavy handed and he seems to be getting no support in school.

When we signed up I provided them all the medical info so it's in his records.

I have asked for a meeting with his form tutor, I want to discuss not only a way to support him but also a way to discipline him when needs be in a way that wont send him spiralling.

I'm worried the self harm could go much further than what he currently does 😞

I dont know how to approach this with school that wont make me sound like I'm asking the school to ignore him if he does something out of line, but to also respect his mental health issues.

You’re welcome. Moving to secondary school is a big step for parents too, particularly if your child struggles. The schools do tend to have less tolerance of “low level” behaviours because the kids are growing up and are starting to need clearer boundaries to prevent absolute chaos.

I’ve had to explain to plenty of parents that detention for a second late homework is perfectly normal and does not mean that Mrs X hates their child 😁. Your DS obviously needs more help than he’s getting, so don’t worry about being “that parent” - you aren’t!

When our DD was struggling at the beginning of high school, they designated an adult who she could check in with if she felt overwhelmed, anxious, upset, etc. For some DCs it was head of pastoral. For others, it was HOY.
For DCs who were self-harming, the HOY did a daily check in with them.
You should also ask that all your DS' teachers are aware of his needs and ask for a designated staff member (pastoral or HOY) to be his contact point. They're not constantly available but in our school, DCs can wait in the office until they are available. In some schools, if there is a school nurse, then their room becomes the place DCs can go.
Ask the school what suggestions they have because they do have a duty of care to your DC and different schools have different systems of support eg a room where DCs can go; a quiet space for breaks, etc.
Also, don't be afraid to keep him home (if you are able to) until you feel they've seriously addressed this.

It does sound harsh, most schools give at least 1 warning before a behaviour point although it's immediate for no equipment.
Do look up the dfe guidelines for mental health as there is a bit in there about not applying the behaviour policy equally if mh needs mean they need a reasonable adjustment. As your son reacts so extremely and wants to do well I would think most schools could treat him a little differently, ie warn first, sit near the front etc.

Haha, yes! DD13 got afterschool detention for not doing homework then not turning up for lunch detention (she claims she didnt know she had it but I'm not convinced). I told her she will get no sympathy from me, she should have done her work 😆

He says he didnt get a warning, and he is incapable of lying. Seriously, he cannot keep a straight face and I can read him like a book. Makes a change to his younger sister who could tell me the sky had turned purple with neon pink polka dots and I'd have to look outside to check if she was lying. I'm white knuckling parenting that one for sure 😆😆 thoughts and prayers to her teachers 😜

DS has anxiety as well (but with very different symptoms), but just wanted to mention that when he went up to secondary school, we also provided all the background to the school and we know his primary also provided some information about how they had supported him. Yet none of the information was acted on, it was just filed away. To be fair to the Senco, he started at the school at same time as DS so it looks like it was the fault of the previous Senco and he was very helpful (at least initially)when we contacted him to find out why nothing appeared to have been put in place and made sure all DS's teachers were aware. But just don't assume that the school/teachers actually know about the issues to begin with.

My experience is also that you have to keep fighting for them - it's very different in secondary as there's so many people involved in their education and they may only see him for an hour or two a week, so it's much more difficult for them to treat each child individually. It's an ongoing battle for us I'm afraid.

I think different schools have different approaches to things like behaviour points- in some schools they're more like a warning, i.e. there's no real consequence to getting one, and in others they have a lot more weight. I suppose I was imagining them as a relatively minor thing- rather than a really serious consequence. If you said he'd been given a more significant sanction, e.g. a detention for clapping or shouting out, I would agree that was too harsh.

However, I think rather than focusing on the sanctions as such, if it were me, my focus would be on what they are going to do to keep your DS safe- I definitely don't think he should have been sent out whilst so distressed, and as he has harmed himself once sent out, the school needs to ensure this doesn't happen again.

I've taught a few students, who, for various reasons, we couldn't send out of the classroom alone, and we had plans in place to deal with situations where they needed to leave the room, and safe spaces in school where they could go if they needed help. If this sort of thing isn't already in place, then I think you need to discuss this with someone like the SENCO ASAP.

I just wanted to say that your son sounds absolutely lovely. I hope this is just a settling in period where the teachers are just unaware of his needs and the best way to deal with him. Sending you both lots of luck and I hope he finds at least a handful of teachers who understand how to help him thrive. I'm sure you do this but try to reinforce that school is not the be all and end all of life, that it's just a small part. His character, attitude and friendliness will take him far in life I am sure.
My son is similar, only 8 but fidgety, diagnosed with 'mild' ADHD, struggles so much with trying to concentrate, already at such a young age he mentally beats himself up because he is so aware that he can't do the the class work to the level of his peers, or can't remember things like times tables as well as the others. I fear for his confidence and the way the school system seems tell our children they are not good enough when they are just different with different skill sets.

Nidan2Sandan, at least with your youngest you know to check! The problem comes when a child (eg my nephew) goes from being incapable of lying to suddenly an expert. It happened basically overnight from what his mum could tell 😂

Tbf, I don’t do warnings for disruptive behaviour (eg shouting out) because otherwise there’s no incentive to avoid doing it at least once. And if half the class (15 kids) do it “just once”, you’ve lost a quarter of your lesson to shouting out / giving warnings and you’ve got to remember which kids have already had a warning! Some year 9 classes would definitely coordinate to see how many of them could get a warning in one lesson. Which is at least team-work I suppose. Warnings are for non-disruptive things like forgotten homework, which is dealt with after the lesson. And yes, I do explain that to the children in advance.

OP your primary has dropped the ball. Your son’s transfer should have been managed. His response is so upsetting he should have been supported and staff should have been notified. He should have a link adult and strategies in place to help. This should so straight to the SEND team and his pastoral head of year/ it’s way above form tutors. Is school aware of the CAHMS input? I would be arranging meetings for tomorrow and as part of the follow up would want his sanctions reset.

@Middledazedted This is 100% accurate. If his needs are this severe, the primary school should absolutely have shared this. As he needed all these adjustments made, he should be wave 2 on the SEND register. Or, under special the care of pastoral team.

Absolutely email the SENCo and HOY to ask them whether they are aware of the needs, outline your concerns about the lesson where he was self harming and make a plan going forward. This is a serious breach of safeguarding and that member of staff should have taken it seriously and called for emergency support.

It does sound like your DS has additional needs too so a good discussion with the SENCo is needed.

Good luck! I am a secondary SENCo and designated safeguarding lead too fyi.

That's really sad to read. He's obviously really keen to do well and not intending to be disruptive.
I can see it must be hard for underesourced schools trying to deal with so many kids too.
I really hope you are able to sort something out with the school.

Thank you. I have sent an email to the Senco to ask for a meeting to discuss his issues, making it clear that I want a plan put in place and that I feel his progress over the last 2 years has been undone and we need to get him back on track.

He cycled off to school again this morning, a bit tearful but said he would "be good".

It occurred to me this morning why they may be stricter than my daughters school. DD13 school is a massively oversubscribed, very high performing school. Peoppe move to the area solely for that school, hence why we left the area because we couldnt afford the size house we needed in that town. We now live just outside the boundary (literally a 5 minute drive) which is why my son didnt get in as the catchment changed. It's not a perfect school, last year an ex student broke in and held my daughters class and teacher hostage in a classroom and police had to gain entry! Lots of bullying, but its academic record is amazing and this is what draws parents to t.

DS school has historically been known and the school with really badly behaved students, there was a stabbing there around 8 years ago and students fighting on local estates in recent years. Lots of issues (nothing recent) but its reputation has followed it through the years. This year it's been taken over by an Academy who talks very strongly about moving the school forwards, improving behaviours and reputation. Could this mean they are possibly coming down harder? Less likely to accept students stepping out of line?

Excuse the typos, my phone is old and has it's own version of auto correct! 😆

Whatever the reasons, whatever the policy, it's perfectly possible for a school to apply sanctions differently according to individual need.

We've had 2 anxious children through ours which hands out detentions for ridiculously tiny infringements. One has a SEN one-pager which is actually read by most teachers and he's hardly ever received any sort of sanctions. Occasionally things go wrong. With our other one we have subverted it a bit, setting her a joke target of getting sanctions to get the full secondary school experience and joke admonishing her when she doesn't. A bit like the Ridikulus spell in Harry Potter, subverting the boggart into something less scary.

SENCo and HoY is the right way forward.

Think about how to de-escalate this fear he has alongside getting them to remove the trigger as much as possible. I would talk to him about how the first time something new or difficult happens, it can be very stressful but as you do it more, it becomes less so. Give him examples of things he's already mastered. It's still very early in Y7 so expect getting a behaviour point to become less stressful over time, and help it along by talking it through with him to decouple the event (getting the point) from his reaction to it (feelings of panic, physical symptoms etc). Use an anxiety workbook to work through how to deal with that. I know it sounds weak when he probably needs professional help but you are available to him now, not in 2 years' time. The more you can interrupt the endless spiral of anxiety the better.

Re no warnings, there may be different perspectives on this. I'm sure he is being truthful in that he has not heard any warnings, but you have been calm and receptive enough to hear any warning and process it in full to understand that you have been warned. It is normal for a child not to register and process every word that's said to them, especially if highly anxious with some autistic traits, in a high stress moment. It's quite possible for a teacher to feel they have given warnings without the message having really got through to the child. Or sometimes a teacher might give a less direct warning, deliberately not picking on the child, but the child doesn't get the subtext or realise it's aimed at them. I wouldn't go in saying the teachers failed to give warnings. I would say that if they did give warnings, the message didn't get through. If he's not hearing then he's not learning in the lesson either. What needs to change to ensure his needs are met and he can engage meaningfully in his learning? Sorry for the essay!

Have pm'd you

In terms of the discipline being heavy handed, as a teacher I would sanction students for shouting out, even if it's the correct answer- I assume a behaviour point is effectively just a "warning". If I allowed all students to shout out, it would be chaos, and I would never get to hear from the quieter students, either. If I knew your son had difficulties around receiving sanctions, I'd go for just having a quiet word instead.

Why does it have to be a behaviour point? Have you tried just talk to the students explaining that it is not helpful if anyone shouts and reminding again and insisting? Can you have a quiet word with other students if they keep shouting? Other children may have similar difficulties without anyone being aware.