Open Mornings and Evenings. What to look for?

[2022wontbecrap]

We are about to start going to the local opening mornings and evenings for secondary school. What things should we be asking or looking for? The last time we did school visits when I went to secondary school over 30 years ago!

Following! Also new to the process and plan to ask about pastoral care, approach to discipline and rote v creative learning.

Can't assist with the correct questions to ask, but if you're looking around the North London schools I can tell you the feel I got from the open days we've been to, which turned out to be fairly accurate (my daughter is now year 8).

I would ask them what support they can provide if a child is struggling. IME most schools can teach Maths and English pretty well, but there is a huge difference in the pastoral support and learning support that is available. When my DC started at an 'outstanding' secondary school I had no idea that there were no TA's in the classrooms and the school didn't carry out any educational assessments below the GCSE years. These were things they didn't have the money for.

If you go to the fancy open evenings, do try and go back for one of the more routine tours during the school day if they offer them. It's really good to get an idea of what the school is like on a regular day. They all look good in the evening when they've got their science experiments going and the handpicked kids showing you around.

In terms of specific questions, it depends what's important to you. A lot of schools near me are going in hard on the basics and so I asked about their provision for art/drama/etc. You could ask them what support there is for homework. Ask them about their discipline policies and how they ensure they don't discriminate against children with SEN. That gives you an idea of if they are actually inclusive.

You could ask them about transition arrangements too. Do they do Saturday schools/summer school for the new Year 7s. What is their uniform policy and if it's heavily branded how are they adjusting that to meet the new government rules.

Personally I think you get a bit of a vibe about schools. Most of them will tell you the same thing so you're going by the atmosphere and whether you think it suits your child.

Worth visiting the loos too. If they are grubby with broken locks and no soap...it's a clue.

In the day:

• if there at lesson changeover is it sufficiently orderly (without being regimented)
• do the corridors and lobby areas appeal to you/your child (eg bright and energetic or calm and peaceful)
• do you want your child to grow up to be like the children you see

Evening

• do the teachers engage with your child
• does the head emphasise things you are interested in (one school I visited didn't mention SEN support or lower attainers at all)

General

• do you get good answers to questions of specific interest eg G&T, SEN, pastoral support
• are toilets properly single sex or in fact 'single gender'
• ask any children showing you round what they like least about school / what they would change, how bullying is dealt with
• your feel on school ethos (regimented, relaxed, pushy on academics, level of homework, uniform rules etc)

There were so many people at the state ones we visited, it was purely a tour, hear from the head and speak to a teacher for a nano second if you were lucky. It was very crowded! Not quite a waste of time but speaking to DCs and parents would probably give you more info. Local people know what schools are good at! Or poor at!

but speaking to DCs and parents would probably give you more info.
Agree if they have current experience of the school

Local people know what schools are good at! Or poor at!
Yes and no. In our town at least, general opinion is slow to shift and can be 5-10 years behind reality, both on the up curve and on the down.

Read everything you can on the school's website beforehand. A lot of them still have videos up from covid, as well as newsletters and blogs. You honestly do need to think about the school for YOUR child - we rejected a fab school for our DD because it just didnt "feel like her". She is so settled and content at the school she ended up at, but it probably wouldnt have been the one I would pick for myself. (She picked a school that is extremely strict because her primary was out of control and she found the learning environment stressful.)

Find out how transition is handled to y7. What is discipline like? how is underachievement or misbehaviour handled?

Do they get a full hour for lunch or just 30 mins?

What would the journey to and from school be like, and consider if the school has a rep for a heavy homework burden

Consider if girls and boys have similar ooportuntiies. Two mixed schools in my area are 65% and 70% boys, because local girls school siphons off the girls. When I asked in Maths, Computer Science, Physics and Chemistry at one mixed school hardly any girls were going forward for A level, and one head of department said that despite huge efforts "girls still saw these as boys subjects" (erm, not at the girls school up the road!).

Is there a flourishing 6th form.

Do they push kids down a certain academic path (if that's what you want) or is it more about being fully-rounded and creative and self-expression.

Ask about choice of options - some schools offer animal care GCSE and BTECs along with A levels. Others offer Latin or German. Many have a "random allocation" of foreign language in y7 so find out if you're concerned they'll be dumped in Spanish and you especially want Frenc. Find out if they do early maths GCSE and if yes is that the only route to do double maths A level. Assess what are the music and arts departments like; what facilities do they have for sports and IT. Do they put on a school play? is there an orchestra or band?

Also look at the library - is it a good space, well-stocked with lots of calm space.

Does the sixth form have it's own common room or block.

Do the kids get their own lockers in Y7.

What extra curricular and school trips are on offer.

Look at the state of the buildings - are there buildings that look very decrepit, as some schools have huge problems raising capital to repair leaking roofs etc.

How long has the HT been in situ, and what vibe do you get.

All brilliant advice so far. For me it was just a feeling, some of the schools just gave me a really strange vibe. Maybe it was the atmosphere coming from the teachers who knows but schools we ended up picking always felt ok.

Following with interest. We have our first one tonight. I'm a bit nervous as not from here so no idea of car parking and how to get around. Assuming they make it really easy.

We have three of interest and I think we can easily tell which is the best objectively but interested to see how to find out if it is best for DD.

Schools do put on great 'shows' for open evenings. e.g Whizz bang experiments in science labs etc. They are an attention grabber, but don't let them distract you from find out information!

Great thread! Thank you.

I already have 1 in secondary but looking again for my youngest. For us as well as all the excellent tips here, it also boiled down to a “feel” for the school. Interestingly, the two that I thought we’d love, we didn’t. The one I just went to see to rule out ended up being our first choice………

To be honest, you get very little useful information. They're all going to say the same things about pastoral care, supporting those struggling academically etc. You're not going to see kids vaping by the bins.
There are two secondary schools in our town and things I have learned since DD started at one and her best friend at another:

• what subjects do they do and what choice do they get. Our school seemed bizarrely fixated on one creative subject in Yr7 (perhaps because they had surplus teachers?) whereas the other school had a more balanced rota
• what languages do they do, what choice do they get etc
• when do they pick GCSEs and what choices do they tend to get. At DD's school they pick 4 and the blocks tend to be quite rigid so you can only done one of art, drama, music, PE etc. That's fine for DD but wouldn't be for a more creative child (although with those subjects there is always the argument that you can do them through after school activities etc)
• how does the day work? DD has a very late lunch break but gets an hour so can do clubs at lunchtime. Her friend gets 2x 30 mins so no clubs at lunchtime
• is there a timetable of after school clubs? Do they lean heavily one way (eg towards sport or music)? How many are run by teachers rather than students? What is the actual uptake like? It's all very well saying you offer X for girls in Yrs 7 - 9 but not if no one does it and they haven't bothered working out why
• most importantly, how will your child actually get to the school and back. Easy if you live within walking distance. Otherwise, make sure your plan is solid. We'd thought DD would get the public bus until we learned no one from our village can actually get on it in the mornings as it's already full!

For me senco was important. I spoke to head of English about how my ds would be supported.

I asked the pupil favourite and worst thing about the school.if they felt bullying was dealt with.

After school clubs

How behaviour is dealt with.

I considered 2 main schools one was a very much do what i say but a smaller school , the second more relaxed nuturing but bigger. The second felt right for my ds.

I fail to see how touring round with hundreds of other parents actually tells you much. I clearly wouldn’t advocate talking to random parents but you can often find sensible informed ones! Ditto friends and neighbours. I also agree that web sites are sources of vital info.

Anyone even thinking about sixth form might find big changes before DC get anywhere near sixth form. Ditto gcse choices. You have to roll with it to some extent. A free school opened in my old home town and they have already closed the sixth form. Beware of promises that don’t mean much.

The info from the government is often good but it’s out of date due to COVID. However consistency in P8 and other measures are still worth looking at. Great teaching is what you need and enough enthusiastic DC in the school. These are difficult to judge from an open evening without other info. Your DC can certainly think about if they feel comfortable with the school but expecting detailed info might be an impossible quest.

I fail to see how touring round with hundreds of other parents actually tells you much.

You have to know what you want to know and make sure you as about it. At open evenings there will be someone somewhere who knows, you just have to find them.

Also student guides can be quite informative provided you don't get a very shy one, so make the most of chatting to any students in uniform.

If you don't care about performing arts, don't bother going to the drama/music area.
If you want to know about level of homework, ask teachers & students to get a feel for range.
If you want to know about pastoral care, ask students but also seek out a pastoral teacher. Ask students about bullying, behaviour in lessons etc.
If you want to know about stretching able students, ask them what happens if someone gets all their work done quickly in maths or whatever.
If you want to know about learning support ask the teachers, but also ask students what happns if someone struggles. They won't all know, but some will.

It depends on your child and what is important to you. A different chuld to my own would need different questions but the ones I asked were:

Finding out about how the yeargroup splits between a "full sciences" curriculum vs a lesser combined sciences at gcse level, and what proportion of the cohort usually go on to sciences at A-level - whilst GCSE and Alevel are a long way off when your child is y6, the way these questions are answered tells you a lot about how inspirational and engaging the science teaching is. At one school I visited, the full sciences curriculum was only offered as a twilight extension to a handful of pupils who were keen enough to do extra school for it. Didn't apply there.

I asked the sports teachers to tell us about what the experience of a child who really didn't enjoy team sports and hated being wet and muddy would be like.

If we were given a tour by a current pupil and I had the opportunity I would aak something like "there's no such thing as a school with no bullying so can you tell me about a time when there was bullying and how it was dealt with.

I also asked about what extracurricular clubs and activities were available, especially looking out for clubs that weren't sports based.

@TeenDivided
At one school we went to, over 800 parents were there. It was heaving. You cannot find staff for detailed questions. However we only looked at grammars and lots of the detailed questions were pointless. Far better to ask privately. Also schools say lots and don’t always deliver!! Be very wary of a sales pitch!

I wonder whether with grammars the need to 'sell' themselves is less?
At the open evenings for my DDs' ex school you could always find SLT & pastoral & learning support staff in the hall, and then subject teachers in the subject classrooms.

Definitely. Also famous private schools. I thought the open day at Habs Girls was very stiff and the staff quite stand-off-ish, but there were so many parents there that they didn't have to do much to impress

We went to look at one school and asked about clubs. DC asked if it would be possible for him to start up a club if it wasn't already on offer? Lots of sucking of teeth and then SLT agreed no, that wouldn't be possible. They were at least honest I suppose.

I didn’t particularly want a school to impress. I like to see a school actually working. I don’t want a sales pitch that then isn’t delivered. We wondered how DC could move around easily! We couldn’t! Yes, there were staff but around 10 parents jostling for position to speak to them. Simply impossible. However I’m sure some parents ask the 20 questions they’ve prepared and the others lose out!

Just got back from our first one. The tour was good and there was a lot to show but the science department was a little showy. All the rest seemed an accurate representation of daily life. The speech was good and the head seemed outstanding. After all this they said catchment area is essentially 0.6 miles away from the school so probably wasted...

Look at how many current kids they've got turning up to represent at the open evening. This is what impressed me about DS's school - loads of teenagers were willing to give up their evening to 'show off' their school. It was pretty heartwarming!! Our school don't particularly handpick kids to do open eve either, if you volunteer you can do it. Definitely speak to the current students and see what they think about what's good and not so good.

Also agree re getting to/from school - I love that DS is a 5 minute bike ride from school. It makes life very easy.

Ultimately though it is a bit about gut feel.