Y7 applications

[schoolworries22]

Has anyone been in a situation where they've had to move catchments but only very local move in reality (so child can stay at same primary), which then causes issues with secondary applications?

Have name changed for privacy. We rent in an area where there are very few rental options, so although only a short distance away in new place, its a different postcode and different catchment area. Still easy to drive to old primary. We didn't initiate the move.

There is only one secondary per catchment area. Feeder primary is in one catchment, we now live in another. Living in catchment is bottom of priority list for area we now live in -- feeder primary bottom of priority list for the only other school option.

How to choose which to put first on list? one school has more places than the other, but a larger catchment area to reflect that. both schools go up to and over PAN regularly but not every year. council admissions team say just choose one and then appeal / waiting list. they can't help any more than that.

Also, what happens if no place comes up?

Any advice from anyone in a similar situation / been in same situation before greatly received.

I'm confused. Are you looking for an in-year application to Year 7? In which case, you would be better off finding out which schools have places regardless of catchment areas.

If you're looking to apply for a start in September 2023, then you just put the schools in the order that you prefer them, with at least one "banker" school that you have a good chance of getting into. You definitely do not apply for just one in this case!
Are you in a situation where you need to be in feeder primary AND catchment to guarantee getting a place at secondary school? In that case you'll likely just be allocated a further away unsusbscribed school (so you might want to work out which one you might prefer to put as your banker).

How to choose which to put first on list?

That's easy. You put the school you like most first on the list.
You aren't penalised by putting a school lower down. If you qualify for more than 1 school on your list they will look at your order of preference, otherwise it isn't used.

Make sure you have a school on list that you should almost definitely qualify for. Better a poor school close by than a poor school far away.

@TeenDivided is correct. There is no need to game your application. Simply name the schools in your genuine order of preference. If you don't get a place at any of your preferences, the council must come up with a place for you somewhere else.

Thanks for your replies! Not an in year application, we are year six now.

Hard to believe, but each area has just one secondary per catchment. So the county is divided up and each area has one school. We have moved from one to an another (across a boundary, basically) attending a feeder in a (now) different catchment from where we (now) live.

We definitely qualify for both schools (catchment for one, feeder for the other) BUT out of a list of six priority criteria, we come bottom of both lists. And both schools have been over PAN.

Schools further away would likely have the same issues I guess so I don't see there being any other schools we'd qualify for more.

My worry is that we don't qualify for school 1 on the list and that by putting the other school in 2nd we would miss out on that too. Or does it not work like that? Child is my eldest, not done this before!

Make sure you have a school on list that you should almost definitely qualify for. Better a poor school close by than a poor school far away.

If only there were choice over poor / better. There is literally two options, possibly three but we are neither in catchment nor a feeder for that one.

Perhaps my wording is wrong. The whole county is divided up into areas, each of which has one state secondary school. There are no overlapping catchments- your home address puts you in one catchment only. We moved across a boundary of an area so our address gives us one school, our current primary feeds another school.

We qualify for school A on living in the catchment (but that comes below care, siblings, feeder schools etc on priority list). We qualify for school B on feeder (but that comes below care, siblings, staff places, those that live in the area, and then bottom comes feeder schools).

Hence the issue that while we may qualify for both, we may also not come high enough up the list of order to make a place at either. then what?

One secondary school per fixed catchment area is really quite a common scenario - so not hard to believe at all!

I think you are confused with the criteria. They just refer to the order in which places are allocated. You can always apply to a school that is not in catchment and to which you do not attend a feeder school. What you need is the list of admissions from this year to give you an idea about what school(s) you would have got into historically. This is normally on the LEA website.

It's possible you are "in a black hole". We used to be in one as to get into our local school you had to live in catchment AND attend a feeder school (living in catchment and not attending a feeder school left you assigned to whatever school was left). But it's unclear from your posts whether that is the sort of situation you are in. Regardless, you have to be assigned a school somewhere - hence the comments about finding a school slightly further away that you might consider. If there literally are only 2 schools within sensible distance, then it's likely that an appeal for one of them would be successful, should you not be allocated a place.

My worry is that we don't qualify for school 1 on the list and that by putting the other school in 2nd we would miss out on that too. Or does it not work like that?

It doesn't work like that. Put the one you like best first.

On your LA website there should be information about admissions in previous years so you can see whether you would have got in. e.g here is the page for Hants where I live: www.hants.gov.uk/educationandlearning/admissions/data

After all the criteria there will be a catch all of distance. So if you live out of catchment and not at a primary school you can still get a place if you live close enough and it isn't full of higher priority people.

If you don't qualify, school places you at nearest school with spaces. You then go on waiting list for your preferred schools/appeal.

I live somewhere with a similar system as yours (South Yorkshire). It does generally work. All DDs class got into the Feeder secondary this year, even those who had moved out of the catchment area but were still localish. But children just out of catchment and not a feeder school didn't.

Check the last few years admissions data... it may reassure you. If not, try to identify a third school that is relatively close but undersubscribed.

Thanks all, I am off to check the data. Perhaps I am just worrying unnecessarily but having spoken to one school today they suggested I should speak to admissions at the county because they are usually oversubscribed. Admissions just said put down the three nearest in your choice of order.

Putting a school second doesn’t make you less likely to get it, and putting it first doesn’t make you more likely.

So just put them in the order that you prefer.

If you are in a catchment “black hole” there is nothing you can do about it. But if those are the schools you are most likely to get, and you like them, put them down.

Filling out the form I think of as like me sending dc to the shop for ice cream and saying, get me a mint cornetto, or if they haven’t got any, a mint magnum.
If the shop doesn’t have either, and she comes back with a strawberry cornetto, it wouldn’t have made any difference if I said I wanted the mint magnum as my first choice - they were both sold out.

I can’t do anything to affect what the people who went in earlier in the day bought (ie the people higher up the admissions priority)

But if there was a queue outside the shop, they wouldn’t tell all the people who wanted mint magnums they could come in first and jump the queue - which would be like letting everyone who put down a school as first choice choose first. Instead everyone takes their place in the queue, first come, first served.

You’re just saying what you prefer from the available options.

@PuttingDownRoots and @TeenDivided Thanks for the data suggestion. My council doesn't seem to have a page like Hants but I could dig up a FOI request from 2021 which seems to suggest that my two qualifying choices didn't refuse any one and the two just further away did. That is reassuring. I will try and find the 2022 data, may have to do my own FOI request!

I think your point is, you are now bottom (or lower down) the list for either of the 2 secondary choices, and therefore run the risk of being allocated a 3rd, less "good" option even though you meet none of the 3rd choice catchment/decision rules, but because options 1 and 2 are over subscribed?

So School A, for the catchment where you now live, places living in Catchment low down the priority list, and instead prioritises feeder primaries, that you don't attend. So you are less likely to get into school A.
Secondary option B, prioritises living in catchment, but you no longer live in catchment, and attending a feeder primary is lower down the criteria so you are less likely to get into school B.

Sadly I think your only real option, if you are seriously worried about over subscription is to move primary school. The LA will provide information about where the cutoff was applied (as in how far down the criteria they got); be warned that the current year7 and 6s represent a bulge year in my neck of the woods.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants that is a good summation. The only thing I would add is that the schools further away also seem oversubscribed so I am at a loss as to what the council would actually do in that case.

I have submitted my FOI request for this last year's data to compare with the 2021 data to see if I can build up any kind of realistic picture as to likelihood of the scenario above happening.

I also note what you say about y6/7 bulge as I am aware at least one feeder primary in our new catchment is full with a waiting list.

It is easy to believe that an oversubscribed school is full, but that is not necessarily the case. Imagine a town with 3 schools each with 120 places in Y7. There are 340 pupils coming up from primary school. Each of the parents applies for all 3 schools. Each school will therefore have 340 applicants for 120 places, so all 3 schools will be oversubscribed. However, as there are 360 places and only 340 pupils, at least one of the schools will have some vacancies.

Your local authority must find a place for your child somewhere. If you don't get a place at one of your preferred schools, they will normally allocate a place at the nearest school with places available. If there are no places available within a reasonable distance, they will allocate a place at whichever school is most willing to take an additional pupil.