Teacher not speaking/understanding English well

[TigersAndToucs]

DS has just started Year 9. He has a maths teacher who is new to the school.
He had his first lesson with her today. Afterwards he and the rest of the class were concerned that although the teacher seems to be fairly fluent in English, she speaks with an accent that is very hard to understand. And more importantly, she did not seem to understand some simple words that the students used.

For context, this is an inner city London comp with a very mixed demographic. Many of the children have English as a second language or have parents for whom English is a second language. So its a not a cohort who aren't used to different accents.

The most worrying example: she was doing a maths problem on the board where the answer was 1/2. She asked what the answer was and most of the class called out "a half". They repeated this a few times. The teacher then asked, "what's a half?"

Obviously not knowing the English for basic maths terms is an impediment. But she could have been particularly anxious today and got easily confused. DH and I have told DS to give it at least a week, and to make surreptitious notes of any other examples where there's a language problem between the teacher and the class. If this issue continues, DH and I will then speak to the school's SLT.

Any other advice of how to proceed?

I don’t think there’s much you can do about this to be honest. I speak as a secondary school teacher myself.

The staffing situation in many schools is dire. There is a huge shortage of teachers, particularly in subjects like maths and science. I’m sure the Head/SLT is fully aware that the teacher in question is a second language speaker whose accent/vocabulary may be an issue. However the fact that they employed them anyway strongly suggests they had no other choice. I’ve heard on the teacher grapevine that some schools had literally no applicants for September vacancies in a lot of subjects this year.

You can help the situation by encouraging your son to be patient, tolerant and not indulge in unkind gossip about the teacher with their classmates. If the teacher is new to the school, they may also be new to the country, or may be living with family who only speak their native tongue, so even if they have been here a while, a summer of speaking little English will have made them temporarily rusty. Either way their English should come on quickly in an immersion environment and by half term I should think any major communication difficulties will be resolved. I speak as someone who has taught in a bilingual international environment for many years. Teachers who start the term rusty in one language very quickly pick it up.

This is not me saying that it’s acceptable, by the way, that children should be taught by someone who doesn’t have an adequate grasp of the language in which they’re supposed to be teaching. It’s not. But this will increasingly become the norm, I fear, as teaching becomes an ever more unappealing prospect for UK graduates.

Anyway, language aside, if the teacher seems to know what they’re doing on the maths front, then I would hold fire on the complaints for now. Give them time to improve their language skills. If by half term things haven’t improved and you’re concerned about your son’s progress then by all means see the Head. But do be aware that having a teacher whose English is rusty but whose maths is strong may be better than a native English speaker teaching maths poorly.

Thanks @EnidSpyton that's very helpful and good context. What a shame about the teaching shortage.

You're right that a good maths teacher with imperfect English may be better than a bad maths teacher who's a native English speaker. It was only one lesson but from what I understood from DS, the communication barrier made it hard to tell how good she was.

DS was very understanding and reluctant to tell me why he was sighing when mentioning his maths teacher. He put it very diplomatically and said she seemed nice, although stricter than other teachers. So he is definitely empathetic and tolerant.

Patience however... that's where we may have a problem. DS has ADHD. He will understand that it may take some time but if in the meantime he has problems following what the teacher says or communicating with her, he is likely to zone out. This is worrying for me, and probably DS, as he had big problems with concentration in some subjects in Year 7 and 8, and his focus is very much dependent on teaching style.

He was top of the class and was considered to be put up a year in maths in Year 7, and loved his maths teacher. But he didn't gel with the teaching style of his maths teacher in Year 8 and wasn't paying attention and was fooling around, and his progress in end of term results for terms 1 and 2 was way lower than he should have got. His teacher called us in, we came up with a plan collaboratively and we had stern words with DS and his behaviour and focus improved so much in the last term. DS was very focused on doing well in the end of term exams.

They have put them in sets for the first time now they're in Year 9 and DS is in set 1 for maths, which he is very thrilled about. We're proud of him and his new serious attitude towards school. But as much as he tries to focus, I know that not understanding what the teacher is saying clearly will be hard on him. Likewise if she doesn't understand him. His brain works very fast, and having to stop to repeat himself or explain may throw him.

I'm going to have a meeting with the SENCO in a week or two so if continues to be an issue I may flag it gently as something to be aware of in terms of DS's focus. I do agree with you that the teacher's fluency is likely to quickly improve and that it might not be a problem by half term, I just hope that DS can stay engaged until then.

Sorry for long reply!

Could you afford a tutor if the situation does not improve?

If the tutor was a couple of weeks ahead of the teacher DS would find the topic easier to understand as he would have some familiarity with what was being taught.

@TigersAndToucs I completely understand your concern with your son’s ADHD and his need to be engaged.

However the fact that this teacher has been given the top set in Year 9 is actually a very encouraging sign. I’m a Head of Department and I would never give a top set to a teacher I wasn’t sure about. So this suggests to me that they come with good experience and subject knowledge.

Putting the language issues to one side for the moment, given your son’s ADHD, if I were you, I’d make an appointment to see the maths teacher to discuss things from a SEN perspective during this first half term. Given the history in maths in particular, this is something they need to be aware of. I wouldn’t take it for granted that your son’s needs have been communicated to all
of his class teachers by the SENCo - some are useless at sharing info with colleagues and some schools’ reporting systems aren’t fit for purpose. There’s absolutely no harm in starting a conversation with the teacher now. If I were them, I’d be grateful you’d got in touch and enabled me to get off on the right foot with your child.

Good luck with it all - hopefully it’ll turn out to be a non issue.

Can you engage DS with trying to help the teacher and be a ‘translator’ when needed. It would mean he would have to concentrate extra hard to get the meaning and then help in a constructive manner when he could tell that the other kids didnt get it. It might be enough to bridge the ADHD attention gap

@EnidSpyton that's a brilliant suggestion about meeting with the maths teacher, thank you. I was going to ask to do that with his new form tutor. But I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to do it with his new maths teacher too given that was the only subject he continually struggled with behaviour-wise. I came up with a plan of his Yr 8 and I regularly checking in on process so that there was complete oversight and accountability and praise from both school and home for improvements. The Year 8 maths teacher sent me an email at the end of the year thanking me for that and saying it really worked. So makes sense to pass that on to the new maths teacher.

You are right about SENCOs not necessarily passing on Information about students' SEND to all teachers. I know this from bitter, bitter, bitter experience from many school as I also have an older child who has both ASD and ADHD.

DS said today that the maths teacher told a student off for doing something that other teachers wouldn't have told a student off for. Obviously I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and I know it's a smart strategy for teachers to start off very strict with a new class. But for DS's sake I need to ensure this teacher knows he will fiddle with his bracelet/pen/fiddle toy and may doodle or write in a special notebook, and both those are reasonable adjustments the school has authorised. We went through a depressing stage in Year 7 where DS was getting continual behaviour sanctions for basically having ADHD. It's taken a lot of work by me, DS and the school to have gotten to a place where the SLT reached a balance where they could distinguish between ADHD symptoms that he couldn't fully stop and control, and behaviour that he could/should control. This has made a massive positive difference to DS's attitude and behaviour.

Great to know that as this teacher has Year 9, she is likely to be experienced and good. I can tell this to DS, as he was saying a few people in his class were saying they didn't understand why the school would give Set 1 the 'most inexperienced teacher'. He thought she may be new to teaching.

@Mosaic123 cheers, I will definitely think about a tutor, holding off for a while but it's a good idea we may need to do, for various reasons.

@SeaToSki thank you for the suggestion. I'm hesitant to suggest DS be the translator though, with his ADHD he has to control his urge to talk a lot, so I don't want to give him an excuse to 'contribute' more!!

Sorry missing words: great to know that as this teacher has Year 9 top set

Maybe the teacher doesn't understand the students' accents yet? She might need a while to 'tune in'?

I would give this a week and then escalate to the head of department.

Happened to my child over lockdown, admittedly that was worse as there's more of a barrier with online rather than face to face, but I assumed my DS was exaggerating (tbf he has form...) until I sat in his room during a lesson. Teacher couldn't understand the kids, kids couldn't understand the teacher, was made to feel racist for raising it, but then I found it many parents had also raised it... it was a really unpleasant situation, we got a tutor in the end.

As a teacher who was paired with a science teacher who had such a thick accent I couldn't understand her at all, it does a class/teacher no favours for behaviour and attainment for learning. I'm sure she is great at her subject, but, the lack of communication skills means that students don't understand, lose interest, and finally behaviour becomes a challenge.
Also, from experience they give less capable teachers top sets due to them not being able to manage a classroom. Which is why I'm leaving the profession, as I'm no longer picking up the slack for teachers who can't behaviour manage. Get your son to make notes and if any of his friends are in his class and you're friendly with their parents email the head teacher. To be honest, the lack of teachers and awful working conditions cause great teachers to leave. Get him a tutor as well if you can afford it.

I wouldn't be that concerned for maths. If they find her hard to comprehend they shouldn't be afraid to ask her to repeat herself.
I proofread a PGCE secondary school English student's assignments. Consistently wrong usage of there/their/there, where/were/wear and lots of 'should of' 'could of'. No amount of me correcting 'Shakespeir' seemed to work. She has English as a first language and just started her first job. I recommended that she take a SPAG course over the summer but she was "to busy". I'm worried about the students she will be teaching.

Hi, as much as language is important, I do believe the teacher should have better subject knowledge. A teacher who isn't fluent is much worse than a teacher who doesn't know the subject.
Maybe you can fill in the gaps by helping DS do the homework or with the revision. You may also find topic-related videos online that can help DS understand better.
Hope this was helpful!

OP - I can understand why she may have misunderstood 'a half' especially if is she of African descent (which I am). We know it as 'half' not 'a half' and for mathematical purposes, asking the student to clarify isn't a bad thing. I won't be surprised if she asks them to clarify when they say 'one half' (1/2) to be sure they don't mean one and a half (1 1/2) interchangeably, just because 'one half' is not commonly used where I'm originally from. Obviously, if there are significant communication barriers, please raise it with the school, I just wanted to clarify your statement that Obviously not knowing the English for basic maths terms is an impediment.

Twenty plus years ago I moved from one region of England to another. I barely understood half of what my y9 tutor group told me and we were all apparently speaking the same language!

A good subject specialist, especially in Maths, is worth her weight in gold. Hopefully as she relaxes with her new classes, and your DS gets more used to her accent, things will settle down. A meeting with her, perhaps wanting to build on what you found worked for DS in year 8 is a good call.

Maybe her question was a concept checking question.
Kids often come up with an answer that's correct, but they have no idea what the correct answer actually means or how to define it and explain it.
That's when we ask CCQs.
@thefamilyupstairs I remember having to point out to a not NQT who was working on my team that her reports, all containing "could of" etc needed to be rewritten. She was an English language teacher.

😮And she passed?

@Delabruche yes she did, but only because I edited everything!

FFS. It's people like you who land the rest of us with colleagues that are a complete embarrassment. The stuff that went out to parents (and put on our website) from one of my colleagues was mortifying.

No wonder we're not respected as a profession any more.

For English language and English literature O levels, my teacher was a recent Kenyan Asian arrival.

My mum felt terrible about complaining, but when she saw her marking of my work she couldn't not. She had written several times "there is no such word" next to perfectly normal words on several occasions. For instance I used the word habitat. Next to it she wrote "there's is no such word. This is the name of a shop"

Oops. On a thread about language I wish I could edit or one of those 'severals'

I started a very similar post a few years back, was a maths teacher too. I got absolutely annihilated! Was in AIBU though.

@saraclara I must admit I felt very conflicted towards the end in helping her. It was a favour to her mother who was extremely proud that her daughter was the first in the family to go to university, and they had paid her PGCE fees upfront. The girl got a C in English on her second attempt, did a degree through OU (she didn't do A levels) and another mug someone else helped her through that. I'm hoping that the school she's teaching in identify her weaknesses and send her on a course.

A lot of people who a great at maths are not very good at languages.

My cousin's English is not fantastic but he's doing ok a Maths professor at University of Texas at Austin.

I have a feeling it will be fine after some adjustment from both sides.

Thanks for all the replies on this. An update:

I messaged the teacher asking if we could meet to collaborate as I'd done with last maths teacher. She replied saying she was too busy to meet, but for me to email her with suggestions.

I met with DS's new form tutor for a general meet and greet anyway, and mentioned it to him. He said other pupils had raised it. Unbeknownst to me, the day before, DS's maths class had a substitute teacher. That was two weeks ago and they've had different substitutes ever since.

So this maths teacher taught for a week max.

I've asked the head of maths what is happening and he said he'd let me know when things are sorted. Clearly there's been an employment issue of sorts here and she won't be back.

Thanks for this, the teacher wasn't of African descent and I believe that the pupils were saying 'half' as well as 'a half'. There were also consistent language issues during the 5 or 6 lessons she taught my child for.