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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Forest School Snaresbrook

60 replies

MarkHemmings · 20/08/2022 17:25

Well, the A-level results are out and it will be interesting to see how well Forest School have done this year. After all, over the past three years the School have conjured up some truly dreadful results. I mean truly awful. Let's wait and see.

OP posts:
CJFJ1 · 20/08/2022 22:33

www.forest.org.uk/outstanding-a-level-results-2022/

Best ever A level results: 67% A - A grades and 85% A - B.

CJFJ1 · 20/08/2022 22:34

CJFJ1 · 20/08/2022 22:33

www.forest.org.uk/outstanding-a-level-results-2022/

Best ever A level results: 67% A - A grades and 85% A - B.

Correction: that should have read 67% A* - A grades.

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 07:15

Let's see if the DfE league table is as enthusiastic as you. I suspect not.

OP posts:
CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 08:56

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 07:15

Let's see if the DfE league table is as enthusiastic as you. I suspect not.

A quick look around last Thursday's A-level results for schools, both independent and maintained, in and around Forest:

Bancroft's 76.5% A -A; 93% A-B
Forest 67% A-A; 85% A-B
llford County High School 55% A-A (A-B not published)
London Academy of Excellence Tottenham 47% A-A; 75% A-B
Highams Park School 57% A-B
Chingford Foundation 61% A-B
Holy Family Catholic School 50% A*- B
Heathcote School and Science College 50% A*-B

Far from "truly dreadful" for Forest. It's never going to be "up there" in terms of one of the top flight independent schools, but 67% A*-A is no mean feat for an independent school in the middling bracket.

As for my "enthusiasm", I couldn't care less about Forest School but the figures don't lie - 2022's A-level results are indeed the school's highest for some time. www.forest.org.uk/outstanding-a-level-results-2022/

Also, irrespective of what kind of vendetta you have against Forest, and also irrespective of league tables and statistics, to rail against the achievements of the current students and staff there doesn't paint you in the strongest of lights.

CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 08:58

CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 08:56

A quick look around last Thursday's A-level results for schools, both independent and maintained, in and around Forest:

Bancroft's 76.5% A -A; 93% A-B
Forest 67% A-A; 85% A-B
llford County High School 55% A-A (A-B not published)
London Academy of Excellence Tottenham 47% A-A; 75% A-B
Highams Park School 57% A-B
Chingford Foundation 61% A-B
Holy Family Catholic School 50% A*- B
Heathcote School and Science College 50% A*-B

Far from "truly dreadful" for Forest. It's never going to be "up there" in terms of one of the top flight independent schools, but 67% A*-A is no mean feat for an independent school in the middling bracket.

As for my "enthusiasm", I couldn't care less about Forest School but the figures don't lie - 2022's A-level results are indeed the school's highest for some time. www.forest.org.uk/outstanding-a-level-results-2022/

Also, irrespective of what kind of vendetta you have against Forest, and also irrespective of league tables and statistics, to rail against the achievements of the current students and staff there doesn't paint you in the strongest of lights.

Those should have read A(star) - A / A(star) -B in the post above.

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 10:53

For someone who '
couldn't care' less about Forest School you've been doing a lot of homework. Let's hope kids at the School have been similarly industrious and have lifted the School out of their usual category of 'below average'. This is nothing to do with me mounting a grizzly vendetta - it's just me recounting recent DfE data. Or, are you suggesting DfE have also got it in for the School. That seems a bit unlikely doesn't it.

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 21/08/2022 11:05

???
Why the obsession with Forest School?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 21/08/2022 11:08

I'm interested to know what is your issue with the school, OP? Past parent? Used to work there? Past pupil?

I mean there has to be some personal reason here.

CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 11:36

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 10:53

For someone who '
couldn't care' less about Forest School you've been doing a lot of homework. Let's hope kids at the School have been similarly industrious and have lifted the School out of their usual category of 'below average'. This is nothing to do with me mounting a grizzly vendetta - it's just me recounting recent DfE data. Or, are you suggesting DfE have also got it in for the School. That seems a bit unlikely doesn't it.

I couldn't care less about Forest School - but literally 5 minutes looking around the data available for those schools around Forest brings you to the A-level results I've quoted above. From which Forest's results still look pretty respectable and far from "truly dreadful".

And for someone who claims it's not part of a "grizzly vendetta", starting a Mumsnet thread specifically about Forest's exam results and claiming they're "truly dreadful" (along with all the other Forest vitriol on Mumsnet that you have posted that has since been deleted) suggests very much otherwise.

CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 11:37

Also please quote the DfE data that suggests Forest's exam results are "truly dreadful".

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 13:28

As usual, some commentators suppose me to have some perverse obsession with criticising Forest School. It's quite simple really, the most recent DfE league table places Forest School in the 'below average' category for A level results. Or put another way, a child in 2019 (the most recent year available in the league table) could have attended more than one of 2000 other schools in England and have expected to get better results than if they had gone to Forest. These figures aren't my fanciful imaginings - they're obdurate facts.

I'll tell you what. I'll ask DfE when the league table for this year's results is due to be published and then we can all enjoy reading it together. Hopefully, the School will have very significantly improved their dreadful academic score and of course I'll be the first to applaud. If they haven't, I hope my detractors will be similarly magnanimous.

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 21/08/2022 17:34

But why do you care? I couldn’t care less what Forest School’s results were.

My youngest went to a school with dreadful results (don’t know what they are like now), but the school was really good for him & I have never regretted sending him there.

My middle son went to a school with brilliant results and it was very much the wrong school for him

a school is more than it’s results!

Devilishpyjamas · 21/08/2022 18:16

*its results - bloody autocorrect

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 19:15

I sympathise with you about the travails of autocorrect. I'm glad one of your sons enjoyed the School and naturally it's good your other son did well academically. I suppose most parents want their children to achieve good academic results - because at some point they have to survive on their own in a cold world.

In one of his newsletters the School's warden (or in ordinary'speak 'headmaster') argues exam results are of very limited importance. But in the real world this Canute-like argument is easily overwhelmed by the mechanics of the competitive process to get and keep good jobs. And so like it or not exams do count a great deal and Forest School aren't very good at it. In fact, historically they're very, very bad at it in comparative terms.

OP posts:
CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 19:34

Devilishpyjamas · 21/08/2022 17:34

But why do you care? I couldn’t care less what Forest School’s results were.

My youngest went to a school with dreadful results (don’t know what they are like now), but the school was really good for him & I have never regretted sending him there.

My middle son went to a school with brilliant results and it was very much the wrong school for him

a school is more than it’s results!

Not only that but the OP refers to the Department for Education data on Forest School from 2019 (the last year of public examinations, before they resumed this year). It's true that its progress score for A Levels is "below average" at -0.29, as the OP is at pains to point out, but beyond that headline is the DfE small print which explains those progress / value added. Crucially, this DfE small print states:

"These figures tell you how much progress students who studied A levels at this school or college made between the end of key stage 4 and the end of their A level studies, compared to similar students across England... A score below zero means students made less progress, on average, than students across England who got similar results at the end of key stage 4.

A negative progress score does not mean students made no progress, or the school or college has failed, rather it means students in this school or college made less progress than other students across England with similar results at the end of key stage 4. The majority of schools and colleges have progress scores between -2 and +2. These scores are also known as 'value added' scores."

You can also see from that DfE data that the average A Level grade at Forest School in 2019 was a B: a B at A Level is hardly "truly dreadful". It's not excellent, but as stated upthread, Forest has never been one of your top flight independent schools where the average is more likely to be A* or A.

The OP also made this point upthread: "Hopefully, the School will have very significantly improved their dreadful academic score and of course I'll be the first to applaud. If they haven't, I hope my detractors will be similarly magnanimous".

Well, one doesn't have to wait for DfE data because as I've indicated above, the school has already published its A Level pass rates last Thursday on their website, which indicates an increase from 39% A (star) and A grades in 2019 to 67% A (star) and A grades in 2022 - an increase of 28%. For A (star) to B grades, they've increased from 65% in 2019 to 85% in 2022 - an increase of 20%. And these 2022 figures are either higher than or level with the internally awarded A Level grades for 2020 and 2021.

Whether or not the increase in 2022's pass rates merit the DfE's calculations lifting Forest from "below average" in its progress / value added score in 2019 remains to be seen, but I would say on the basis of this data published on Thursday alone that Forest has "significantly improved" on its results. Unless the OP is doubting the veracity of the school's data published on its website, of course.

And to repeat a point I made upthread: I don't have any particular interest or attachment to Forest School. In fact, I barely knew of it until I started reading some of the OP's posts on this forum. What I do have an interest in is when people post information very selectively in order peddle a particular agenda about a particular school.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 21/08/2022 19:49

Still not willing to tell us what your connection to the school is?

CJFJ1 · 21/08/2022 20:07

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 19:15

I sympathise with you about the travails of autocorrect. I'm glad one of your sons enjoyed the School and naturally it's good your other son did well academically. I suppose most parents want their children to achieve good academic results - because at some point they have to survive on their own in a cold world.

In one of his newsletters the School's warden (or in ordinary'speak 'headmaster') argues exam results are of very limited importance. But in the real world this Canute-like argument is easily overwhelmed by the mechanics of the competitive process to get and keep good jobs. And so like it or not exams do count a great deal and Forest School aren't very good at it. In fact, historically they're very, very bad at it in comparative terms.

This is part of the Warden / Head's piece in said newsletter from 2020:

Certainly, in the world of work and in adult lives more generally, many other factors will trump grades in determining success. Character traits such as grit, curiosity, teamwork, oral communication and creativity are non-cognitive abilities that are not tested and reported on in depth by most schools. We must have a certain level of cognitive intelligence and ability to learn. Clearly, good grades signal this ability. They can and should be celebrated. But success
requires so much more. Particularly if success is recognised as something that is grown and developed, not suddenly arrived at; something that has many manifestations. A richer definition of success would show it being grown and developed in an outstanding all-round school that has pupil development as its
starting point, not a finishing point. When grades – or more importantly a school’s integrated curriculum, as we have at Forest - can reflect all the key
contributors to a child’s development and character, then they might hold more weight towards determining success beyond the very consumer centric view of success painted by the media.

He isn't arguing that grades are of "very limited importance" - he's arguing that they're one small part of a holistic education that a school should be offering.

And as someone who's heard many independent school heads speaking at open days, that Warden / Head at Forest is certainly not alone in arguing this. In fact, I've lost count of the number of Heads at independent schools who want to get away from their reputation as exam hot-houses and have said something very similar to the Warden's piece above, along the lines of "If this school was only interested in excellent exam grades, we'd be failing your children".

99percentlurker · 21/08/2022 20:17

OP, you do seem to have a vendetta as evident from your last thread and this one.

The issues you raised from your time at Forest albeit from a long time ago, seem to have not been resolved directly with the school. Instead you seem to start threads about Forest’s current performance despite seemingly having no current connection to the school.

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 20:31

My principal connection with the School nowadays is by means of the DfE league table for A level results. That's the whole point of league tables isn't it. They are intended to dispassionately provide comparative information that anyone can read - including me. I'm not sure some parents and prospective parents have the time to delve around in the innards of the league table and so I hope it's helpful for me to highlight it for their attention. Of course, they can ignore my posts as can you.

OP posts:
EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 20:35

OP what happened to the long story you were going to tell about your experience there?

twilightcafe · 21/08/2022 20:42

OP - you still haven't said what Forest School has to do with you.

MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 20:48

I have finished my account as promised, a copy of which has been sent to the School. I have committed to not commenting further on its substance while a formal investigative process is underway. Please note I asked Mumsnet to delete my previous threads so as not to distract from that process. Mumsnet kindly agreed to my request. Consequently, my present thread deals only with the vexed subject of exam results and not child protection.

OP posts:
MarkHemmings · 21/08/2022 20:53

What Forest School has to do with me ... is that they de-facto receive public money from being registered as a charity ... and so is legitimately subject to scrutiny by members of the public. I am a member of that public. It's quite straightforward really.

OP posts:
TheYearOfSmallThings · 21/08/2022 20:54

My principal connection with the School nowadays is by means of the DfE league table for A level results.

This in no way explains your behaviour.

lickenchugget · 21/08/2022 20:59

Friends DC attend. They are delighted with the school. Great exam results and kids are very happy.

Weird thread. Parents look at a whole host of factors when deciding a school for their child. DfE league tables are not top of most considerations.