Is it acceptable for a child to be given a detention for being too early to lessons?

[Carsgoingby]

Interested in other peoples thoughts on this - twelve year old turning up ten minutes early every time the lesson is after break / lunch. Teacher has repeatedly asked them not to.

They can't be there alone because there is no supervision. If something happens to them, the first thing the parents will ask is "where were the teachers?" The teachers are not there because they are going to the toilet/ eating/photocopying/ on the phone.

Students are supposed to be in areas which are supervised by staff on a duty rota.

Some students also do not "queue quietly" in corridors where there are no staff. Some of them push, shout, swear, drop litter, run, gossip, vape, are mean to other kids etc.

perimenofertility
Ten minutes early definitely doesn't warrant a detention.

Yes it does.

And if the child has repeatedly ignored instructions, well I consider that the teachers fault - not making the instructions clear enough or not seeking to understand why they are not/cannot do what's asked.

This is just excusing the child without knowing the details.

But if there is just one child not following the instructions then how can it be the teacher's instructions!
Go outside at break / Do not come here til 19:40 (for example) are not very difficult instructions to understand!

Fuckology

detention!!!!! For being early???

Poor kid. 😟

I used to be early to my lessons when I was being bullied. My school was huge and being picked on in the vast outside space, spending whole break times on my own trying to find a friendly face or worse, trying to hide from the ones gunning for me, was awful. I never told a soul for fear of further repercussions but would be early to lessons as the presence of adults made me feel a little bit safer. If I’d been punished for that, I’m not sure what I’d have done.

It was an awful, awful time. I relive it often.

@Carsgoingby I think this is ridiculous-
Maybe it should be explored why child is going this- are they lonely? Anxious about breaks? Being bullied and seeking salvation? Why do teacher not try to identify what is behind the behaviour?

Why are so many people assuming the teacher hasn't tried to look for a reason for the behaviour?

I would give a detention for this too. My lunchtime is my only opportunity for a moments peace, a drink, food and the toilet. If a child is hanging about outside I’m no longer on a break I’m watching them. They are also very rarely stood quiet they are playing with the windows or putting their head in for a bit of paper, asking if the homework should be on plain paper or lined. What if I was on duty elsewhere and the fire alarm went off, if that kid isn’t in the correct place nobody will know where they are.

Those saying it’s the teachers fault for not being clear enough, please reflect on what you are saying. You are not doing your kids any favours by refusing to ever let them be wrong, being corrected teaches them how to make better decisions in the long run, you are teaching them they can do whatever they want.

Can't speak for anyone else but I assumed that the op would have said if anything had been tried before handing out detention.

That could only be said by someone who has never worked in a school.

The teacher may have work, eg they might be adding something to SIMS that is confidential.

They may be helping another child.

They might be scared of being seen to be acting inappropriately or accused of something, most teachers don't want to be alone with a child.

Then there is health and safety concerns, maybe the teacher is putting up a display or is working with something that could be dangerous, eg getting chemicals ready for a science class.

OPs not come back, maybe they're still in detention

I'd give a detention for this, children are not allowed in the school building unless supervised.

Our toilets for break and lunch are in a diner in a separate building and we have an oasis hub (as do most schools) for students to go to and talk to kindness ambassadors or to take part in quiet activities for those who find unstructured time difficult. There is no reason for a child to be stood outside a classroom it is a safeguarding and safety issue. They have to be in an area supervised by staff.

🤣🤣🙃

The school staff on here that don't seem to give a shit about finding out why before dishing out dets is staggering.
a basic part of your job is the children's wellbeing….’oooh health and safety’!’ christ

and yes ive worked in a school, its not hard or taxing to ask why.

I expect the teacher is pissed off at losing ten mins of their lunchtime because if a student turns up, they'll feel they need to supervise them. I'd be posted off too, barring anything going on in the playground that's untoward.

I can't see the post where the OP says the teacher hasn't tried to find out; can you direct me to it?

@Mumgonemild nobody has said they wouldn't ask. The first time I would ask, point them in the direction of the oasis hub and record it on the system. The second time I would do the same and give a detention as they know they are not following the rules and safeguards put in place.

There are members of staff on duty paid to deal with these issues. I get 30 mins lunch, 10 of those will be spent clearing away the previous practical, setting up the next one, putting retrieval exercises on the board and getting books out, recording any positives or issues from previous lesson on the system. If I spend another 10 talking to a student when do I get to go to the toilet, eat or have a drink as I can't drink in my lab and if I don't drink my voice starts yo go and I end up with laryngitis? I will probably have done a break duty as well so won't have had chance then either.

The Oasis hub has a member of staff and peer kindness ambassadors to deal with bullying incidents or to help support building friendships etc. Most schools will have something similar.

That poster is referring to the many posters on the thread who claim to be teachers, saying they’d give out detentions on the spot for this apparently major infraction (upon their break time).

I haven't read anyone say they'd give out a detention on the spot for this.

The fact the detention has been given for "refusing to follow instructions" implies the OP child was asked to not stand outside the classroom at least once.

Yes, my dcs' school has got similar places kids can go if they are struggling. They are also allowed to go to the library which is supervised. Dd used to do that.

The detention is probably more because 1) they haven't taken the instructions and 2) they are wandering the school at lunch time which is usually not allowed.

But I would definitely be asking why they are doing this, rather than just punishing it.

You can read back the thread and see them@SuperSange , its a short thread easy enough to wade through

The detention is not for turning up early. It's more likely for entering the school building during breaktime if that's not allowed.

As to why the kid is repeatedly doing this. It could well be friendship or bullying issues that need addressing. It could also be rifling through lockers/classroom drawers etc when no one is around...

Depends. Plenty do for such reasons as

A. There is cctv and patrolling staff in the playground, but not in the building.

B. They have a fundamental moral objection to being told what to do.

C. It's fun getting teachers and other staff into trouble if you know they get it in the neck from SLT.

D. It's fun showing a member of staff that they have no choice over whether s/he gives you attention or not.

E. It's a way of showing others that you're the teacher's favourite because she lets you come in and spend half of her lunchtimes with her. The teacher breaks the rules for you because you're special.

F. You've got a stonking crush/fancy her and think that if only you could spend some time alone without other kids around, something would develop.

After all, if this were a girl and a male teacher potentially alone together with no normal means of anybody seeing what could be happening, spotting her in the corridor every lunchtime and she was saying 'I just don't want to be late', would everybody still be comfortable with it? I'd certainly hope that SLT would make damn sure no teacher was put in that position/able to do such things unchecked and no child was able to be at risk.