Music performance in school - what's normal?

[GCSEmusichelp]

Just trying to sense check myself here.

I have two daughters at the same big comp. Older one is in Year 10, studying GCSE music and was of course at the school pre Covid. Younger one Year 8 so has now been there two years.

As I've posted before, music department has struggled with Covid, as have many, and younger one will have to take GCSE music as an add-on afterschool 'club' because not enough people picked it as a real GCSE class.

She learns a few instruments. Her main one is flute and she's passed Grade 7, preparing for 8. She doesn't learn this in school, but attends a Centre for Advanced Training on Saturdays, where she also learns a second (shortage instrument). However, she learns cello at school and takes grade 5 this week.

It's not that she's a massive show off, but she has barely been allowed to play any of her instruments in school in the two years she has been there. She was once allowed to send in a recording in lockdown for a music lesson, because they all were, and she did a recording with three other cellos at the same time, which was hidden on the school website and not publicised at all.

She plays in one ensemble in school which did an informal performance two weeks ago as part of a 'get together'.

This week was told she could play in a school lunchtime concert with her cello before her grade 5 exam. She was really excited, but when she arrived at the concert there was nobody there. There is another concert next week but she is told this 'isn't for her' because only grade 1s and 2s can play in it. Fair enough, but hers didn't happen!

She is desperate to play - and knows that because GCSE music is now a 'club' for her year there will barely be any performance from that either, unlike for other years where this takes place in school time classes.

Neither current music teacher has ever heard her play any instrument solo- not even the instrument she learns in school - because it is all keyboard work and she's not a pianist. The school graded her 'average' for music..which she found hard to take

Is it unreasonable for her to expect that at some point over the last two years a music teacher (or even her class tutor) might have heard her play one of her instruments in some capacity- especially given this is very much the subject most important to her?

Even if one of them had taken her aside for five minutes and heard her play it would have been such a huge deal to her.

I recognise they're busy and all children are important, but she is, for context, the child taking the two highest in-school music exams this term (it's a school that goes up to 18, and she's 12) and they make a huge fuss of their dancers, sportspeople, artists and those doing drama monologues, who get to perform.

She does get chances out of school, so perhaps they feel she has enough.

It's not that she even wants a public performance, she just wants a teacher to hear her play...just once, because some form of recognition from school that her hard work is important matters to her.

Am I expecting too much - I expect I am - Covid transition has been tough for her and she's so sad about the GCSE that it's hard not to take it personally? The school used to have lots of performance opportunities so I'm used to it being a given that they can do something.

Tell me to pull myself together!

I would feel very disappointed in her shoes and yours too.
I have two sons who play lots of music at school, even the younger who is not doing GCSE.
I would raise it with the head or head of year. The school should be encouraging their pupils esp post covid, not the opposite!

You're not expecting too much, it sounds very disappointing. I'd raise it with the head of year and music teacher. Hope it works out, she sounds very dedicated and talented - well done to her!

I raised it with the music teacher - who was just angry. Apparently they are working 'exceptionally hard to provide performance opportunities' (just not for my dd it would seem)...

I was cross enough when they pulled GCSE music and apparently that was me having 'overly high expectations' so I'm not holding my breath that this will do anything other than make her even more determined NEVER to hear DD play anything. I don't want her to be stigmatised.

If grade 7/5 at flute/cello are the highest exams anyone there is going for (if i understand that correctly), and no-one wants to do the GCSE, that would suggest the school has very few good musicians, so it's a bit of a vicious circle -they don't have musicians, so can't offer much in the way of orchestra/performance opportunities, so people are discouraged and musical children not attracted to the school.

It doesn't sound as if the music teacher is really much help either.

Do they still do assemblies? Maybe suggest she does one of her grade 5 pieces in one?

@PatriciaHolm - grade 5 is the highest, at cello and voice (both my dd). There is a grade 4. DD did her flute exam out of school so it wouldn't have counted, but there have been grade 8s in the past.

There are assemblies, but no music in them.

Your expectations of the school are unrealistic to say the least...! Ime only top tier private schools take music seriously and even then not all of them... sport often dominates!

Do you live in or near a city of any decent size? There will be city/town based and county based ensembles to join. Youth specific and all-ages (adults and young people together).

Here's my experience:

The county youth orchestra was for 11-18, no parental supervision required, 1 rehearsal weekend every couple of months, (residential or day attendance) and minimum 2 annual performances, plus opportunity to audition for national groups and overseas tours.

The wind band was an all ages wind band requiring parental supervision for under 18s (if the parent plays anything they simply join the band too, a nice way to spend time with a teen who might otherwise not want to be around parents!). Played regularly in the city centre bandstand and a couple of other performances.

Cast your net much wider and get DC into these groups, you will be pleasantly surprised if you can get through the initial clique-yness these groups often have.

I’d email the music teacher, copy her form tutor or head of year and copy the head in to ask if she could play in assembly. Put down that she’s never played in person to anyone in school or received any acknowledgment unlike the public recognition of the dancers, sports achievers etc and would like to be recognised in the same way and perhaps inspire the grade 1s and 2s in school ( which you mentioned they concentrate on).State that if they are unable to accommodate her to explain why so that you can inform DD. They will have to respond

Thanks - she does get lots of playing chances out of school, now covid is over @MaximumLeeway - she has done NCO this year plus NYCGB - and I guess will be eligible for NYO Inspire next year as a state school musician. It's more that school is a massive part of her life, and she isn't allowed to do the thing she cares about, while everyone else is.

I didn't think one concert a term was unrealistic - it's the minimum in the new music curriculum for state schools and most round our way seem to do them... (and this school used to) it just hasn't happened at her school since Covid. Maybe the other local secondaries are the outliers.

Both my children engaged with school music (state school) and did get to perform in concerts. I do however tend to think that (sadly) more serious musical education is usually only available through private lessons and opportunities outside the school environment.

I think you are being unrealistic tbh, my DD is doing GCSE music and they have never played for the whole school - I don't think they've even played for their Music class. They record pieces and send them to the teacher. They have a school orchestra club, and have played at school concerts but outside school - in the evening. Never had once-a-term concerts even pre-covid.

You also seem to be taking it all very personally, and it isn't personal to you or your daughter. Is there a reason why you haven't moved her to a school that does do GCSE music if that is important to her, especially if you say the local ones do concerts more frequently?

It really depends on the school. Our big state comprehensive has a fantastic music dept - with a school big band, orchestra, concert band, a number of choirs and trainer bands. You are right to expect more, but it is hard for schools. They need to motivate kids to attend after school clubs. Getting them to play music they enjoy (they all love Stevie Wonder and film music!) helps. Then they can do school concerts and it builds from there. Takes time to build this up.
But the county groups should also provide fantastic opportunities to play too.

I didn't move her because we didn't find out they wouldn't offer the GCSE until the middle of year 8, by which time she (understandably) didn't want to leave her friends. This is the first time ever they have not offered it, and it is because there were no music teachers during the covid period, so nobody was encouraged to take it.

@ChicCroissant I don't think she wants to play to the whole school - perhaps to one teacher, or her class, or for someone to listen to a recording she's made. Literally no-one has heard her play - not one teacher, or her form class, or her music class. There has not been an evening concert in which she could play, nor a recording that a current teacher has listened to (the teacher who asked them to make recording has left).

There is no school orchestra - all of these things did exist before covid. They don't now.

Sounds like GCSE music when I took it 16 yrs ago. The teachers only ever focused on those creating songs using the music software on the computer. I never played in class etc and I preferred to hand write my music compositions. Got predicted a shit grade because I didn't show any "skill" in class (because they only listened to the computer based pieces or singers, and I could only play the separate parts of my composition in the keyboard).

I actually got a good grade in the end as compositions were sent away to be marked, and whoever marked mine obviously didn't mind a handwritten piece. I played grade 7 clarinet for my performance so got an A for that (anything above a grade 5 played well was an A). I also did alright in the exam. Overall I found gcse music to be a joke. Everything I learnt about music worth knowing was from my piano and clarinet teachers.

I'm a teacher. What you say is awful. There is no reason on earth why someone at the bloody school couldn't listen to her play solo and make her feel valued for her talent and dedication.

If it was sports...

I think it sounds massively disappointing. How many children wanted to do GCSE music?

My children are at a state school where music is given huge importance (as are sport, drama, dance). They have a lot of students who start with strong musical ability but also encourage people to start from scratch. There are always at least 2 GCSE classes plus an A level class. Off the top of ny head there are the following ensembles:

symphony orchestra
junior orchestra
concert band
junior concert band
jazz band
flute choir
clarenet choir
senior strings
saxophone group
chapel choir
barbershop
junior girls choir
gospel choir
senior boys choir non audition
junior choir non audition
senior choir non audition

plus various other non classical groups.

there are several large concerts each year, junior / senior musical, Carol concert, several chamber concerts and one or two rock / pop events.

during lockdown music lessons etc carried on over Google Meet. They did lots of other things with virtual choirs where people all recorded themselves individually singing certain songs and then the music technician did clever things splicing them all together and making videos. They did a few of these. When school went back but they were in bubbles they rehearsed outside / in marquees distanced in their bubbles. The Carol concert was in bubbles and live streamed.

many ensembles are led by 6th formers.

so it is definitely not just private schools who do music! I think it comes down to the culture of the school and the importance slt place on it.

I would be pushing for them to run gcse music - once it goes as an option it may never return.

im so sorry for yr dd.

That's very disappointing - it's been a number of years since I was at school, but I had learned piano outwith school and then learned the flute in school. Those were my 2 instruments that I used for the classes, and we had regular concerts including a 24hour musicathon where I had an hour slot just to play the piano, and even a school band trip abroad which gave us a chance to perform in public locations in Europe. And that was just a normal public school!

It's sad they they aren't encouraging her skills gained outwith school, sounds like it's just a badly run music department which is a real shame as that was the best bit of school for me.

I moved my dd from one large state comp to another for y9 partly because music provision at the first one was so poor. (There were other reasons too.)

The first school rarely ran GCSE Music, let alone A-level, and the extra-curricular provision was a unison choir of about 5 girls singing Adele songs and a random ensemble of any instruments anyone played.

The second school couldn't be more different, with orchestra, big band, training band, several choirs including one that sings evensong at various cathedrals. The feeder schools get together to do a lot of music and concerts too, sometimes including the secondary and sometimes not.

DD is doing A-level Music and she gets to sing or play several times a term in concerts, church services, assemblies etc. Obviously Covid meant none of this happened for her GCSE, but it would have done otherwise.

It really does depend on the school and whether you have a really committed head of department and supportive headteacher.

KittyMcKitty

• four children wanted to do GCSE music. They've garnered seven for an out-of-school 'club'.... (because of course now it is as well as other options). It's a massive (girls) school - every other year has a small but viable GCSE music cohort.
• They did manage a 'battle of the bands' and this funny Get Together concert which was mostly drama and dance but a couple of music groups too.
• There is a choir (ten kids). Dd is in that.

Is there no way they’d run it with 4? It sounds like it’s just not important to the school culture. Our school as 150 in a year (more in 6th form) but has around 70 / 80 in the KS4 / 5 choir.

is it worth a conversation with the school about the importance they place in creative subjects?

do they do musicals?

This is disgraceful, your poor DD. Mine are in primary school but have more opportunities than this. Music should be valued and celebrated.

I would absolutely escalate this to the head teacher. If you get nowhere and music is dd's gift then I would be taking to her about looking at other schools where her gifts would be nurtured and valued.

I, too, feel very sorry for your DD. Music was my best subject at school too (though I was not as advanced/talented as your DD!), and although the school orchestra wasn’t any great shakes, I felt really appreciated by the music teacher for my abilities and enthusiasm, and my form tutor and senior staff were also encouraging. I really valued that acknowledgment from the school of all the effort I put in within school time and at weekends/holidays at county level.

I can understand ththat there might be more limited opportunities due to the fallout from the Covid pandemic, but for me what stands out from your posts is that the music teacher is uninterested and even got angry with you for raising it. I know people are stretched, but I would have expected some acknowledgement and understanding, and some nice conversations with your DD, at the very least.

I moved school for sixth form in order to do A-level music (I’d have been the only one at my first school), and it was wonderful to be in a school with an even stronger musical culture. Once again, the music teacher and senior team were engaged and encouraging, and through their networks I got involved in playing in the pit orchestra at the local amateur theatre, and got a couple of paid gigs.

I know your daughter doesn’t want to leave her friends at this stage, and I know she does lots of great musical things outside school, but I do think it would be worth looking at other schools to see if they offer better. A conversation with a couple of heads of music at other schools would be very revealing.

Thank you all. Lots to think about.

We looked at other schools, and did some applications - and even appeal forms - but Dd refused to le me go to the appeals after initially asking me to do them.

She keeps saying it 'will get better' - i think she is convinced that the new music teacher will grow to like her and give her stuff to do once she actually speaks to her or hears her play. I'm worried that the signs are not good that she will...

DD does love her friends at school - it would be hard to wrench her away.

I guess we'll just have to accept that for her, all music will basically have to be out of school - as it is for lots of other children up and down the country. Although the good news is that the school flute teacher who is organising the grade 1 and 2 concert has now emailed me and said DD can play in that after missing her own.

I'm not entirely convinced that's the best course of action but it does at least show willing from someone (the school music teacher informed me it was nothing to do with her!).

There is apparently a musical next year.

OP your latest post is encouraging but the music teacher being actively unhelpful, I’d have a word with the head she sounds dreadful

It's disappointing and rubbish and unfair but I would concentrate your energies on out of school opportunities. Mine went to a state comp which was fantastic for music (yes, they do exist whoever said it was only private schools that had good music) ... she's lucky she has opportunities elsewhere. Others won't. A lot of work, but would she want to put on a charity concert, however small, with her friends?

i think she'd feel it was showing off, Moominmammacat...... but it's a lovely thought.

As for the Head - she doesn't really like classical music, probably why the pulling of GCSE music has passed without comment really.