Prize Giving Ceremonies - Teachers Decide or What?

[hullabaloo22]

Just that, really, how do schools (that hold prize winning ceremonies) decide on which students are to be awarded?

E.g. maths/science prize, form prize, academic etc etc

I don't think it comes down to end-of-year exams or necessarily overall quantitative performance, so how are they decided?

Is it down to individual teachers to nominate and, if so, what do they base their decisions on?

Call out to teachers/school staff as having discussed this with a number of friends, we're none the wiser and genuinely curious to know...

I like this approach too but you would really need to know your students very well. There may be lots of students who have overcome challenges in ways that are not evident to the teacher at all because they have not shared their issues.

Fair enough op, I must have misunderstood your intent. Have stood next to enough parents over four kids in assemblies / prize days etc to be wary 😂 many apologies and I'm glad you've had some informed answers.

:)

No, I guess we were more thinking those questions that are relevant to the topic but might be too difficult for the teacher to answer, or go beyond the current curriculum (due to child being very interested in the topic)! ;)

So it seems the very compliant, studious types regardless of whether they are particularly passionate (and not the highest scoring in exams) would be chosen ahead of others that are well behaved but perhaps a bit more animated/chatty?

I've been a teacher for 27 years in a wide variety of schools. Virtually all teachers like kids who are passionate about the subject and ask difficult questions, unless the child is also generally a pain in the arse (i.e. actuallybadly-behaved). If a student asks a science teacher, for example, a question about something really complex to do with astrophysics or whatever, why would that annoy the teacher?

What you call 'compliant types' are usually just well-behaved kids. We like those. But it's perfectly possible to be compliant and have spark and a passion for a subject.

It's also possible to be a smart-arse who deliberately tries to trip teachers up or make them look silly (usually unsuccessfully, fortunately), through arrogance rather than a passion for the subject. We can tell the difference.

I would also say it’s very very rare for a child to ever ask a question that is too difficult for a teacher to answer. It might be too hard to answer in a way that makes sense to the child, or they might take some time to formulate an answer, but I don’t think I’ve ever been truly stumped by a student question. Subject knowledge and all!

I agree with that sort of an approach being really good. But a bit of common sense needs to be used in its application. My daughter's prep school introduced a numerical scale for effort grades at one point, and calculated an average from it. At the end of the year the girl who always got the achievement prizes, was a very solid and steady worker, and also got the effort prize. I assumed that it had been done on a "who's got the highest average effort grades" - but, who gives the same child both effort and achievement prizes if those are the only class prizes???

Reading through it's occurred to me that my youngest may well get a couple of subject prizes when he finishes sixth form next year. Neither of which will be the subject he plans to study at uni :)

This is a really interesting post and others too. Of course, you don't want kids who are not well behaved (my DC who is bright has never had detentions etc and is well behaved but perhaps chatty at times ;), but my friend's DC - as referred to earlier - really is out of this world clever. To the point he will definitely know more about certain subjects than most adults. Takes after his super smart dad who is lovely but a bit of a professor type. And so they will be a bit 'challenging' (but not rudely so) in their questioning/debating.

I do know that one of the main traits of gifted children is that they often 'challenge authority'. So although you don't want 'smart arses' who are wanting to show up the teacher for the sake of putting the teacher down, it does seem a shame that there may not always be space for those gifted children to explore/question.

Also worth pointing out - I think a poster mentioned that they would not necessarily award a prize to the top performing students or to 'those kids for whom it comes easy' - that I think teaches (and bosses at work) often assume that when a kid is very bright or do very well at school (or a great job) that the top performance in itself should be reward enough and that they will not need the recognition. But they really do.

Doesn't seem a very fair way to do it. Some children will 'stand out'. Usually the popular, vocal kids. There's a real danger of teacher's pets getting chosen with this system or any 'teacher nomination' system. Fairest way is purely grade or mark based. It has to be something quantifiable.

Agree, the fairest way. And on the whole academic year (including end-of-year exams, if done) performance. If a school wants to award for behaviour, perhaps introduce prizes specifically for this?

Depends on the school. At ours:

Subject prizes go to the kid who came top in the exam

Prizes for overall academic excellence go to the kids with the top average mark across all subjects

Prizes are also given to the kids who have received most commendations over the year.

Not much room for subjectivity except in the last category.

my friend's DC - as referred to earlier - really is out of this world clever. To the point he will definitely know more about certain subjects than most adults.

Now I assumed you were talking secondary level - as you are in 'Secondary Education'.

However out of this world clever your 'friend's DC is I'm pretty sure they DEFINITELY don't know more about my subject than I do. I have a First Class Honours, a MA in my specialism and I have taught and been an examiner in the subject for almost 30 years.

Pretty confident none of my teenage students 'know' more than I do on the topics I teach. If they are chipping in on topics I don't teach then, as PP said, they are just being disruptive.

You sound very experienced and qualified. I know secondary kids, bright ones, that would ask very deep and out-of-the-box questions on things relating to the topic but perhaps not within the narrow frame of the curriculum. This is typical of gifted children who will draw links to other subjects so questions are relevant but not exactly narrowed down to a sub topic of a specific module of a subject.

I have a PhD but there will still be questions relating to my subject (which I have studied and worked within for 20+ years) I won't know the answers too.

That sounds perfect to me. Very logical and reasonable. And only subjective where it needs to be!

I suspect the point you are missing, OP is that many teachers, particularly at secondary level, chose to work in that field because they have a genuine passion for the subject. I absolutely agree that bright secondary aged children do ask questions 'outside the narrow frame of the curriculum'.

My point is that I am almost 60 and have got a lifetime's love of learning behind me. I'm not unable to answer questions that are outside the curriculum! You seem to think that teachers can't answer questions that are 'too deep' for them, or 'go outside the curriculum' as though we are only knowledgeable about things that are on the exam spec.

I teach my subject because I'm passionately interested in that field. I've spent much of my life reading around it because I'm interested in it - and therefore I'm not flummoxed by 'deep' questions, or ones relating to other areas of my speciality. I would suggest that goes for most teachers and one of the things that we enjoy is discovering a bright child who is really interested in our subject and keen to know more as @Fairislefandango has already said. It just feels that a lot of your subtext suggests you (or friends) want to be able to say "Never mind, darling - the teachers are just jealous of you because you are SO clever and they can't keep up with you".

On the original question, I agree with pp who said "Prizes go to the child who came top in the exam". In September, when asked to nominate my subject prize for this year's Y13 it will be awarded to the pupil who got the highest A level mark in their exam. That's fair. It might not be the pupil I think was best at my subject over the two year course - but it takes the emotion out of it to award it to the pupil that performed best in exam conditions/did the most revision/actually pulled it out of the bag on the day.

On the original question, at the school my sons attended it was up to individual teachers. Anecdote incoming...

One year, my eldest son was told by his teacher that he was going to get the prize for consistent effort throughout the year. However, that teacher left at the end of the summer term and the new teacher, who joined the school in September and therefore was not with the school for any part of the year in question, awarded the prize to someone else. He only found out on prize-giving day and was thoroughly demotivated by this. We did think of complaining but my son didn't want us to and, even if the school had agreed to award him a prize as well, he would still have missed out on receiving his prize from the guest of honour in front of everyone and having his name printed in the programme.

ds is fairly smart and was always in the top 5 kids in school (low progression school and they had a useless mentor group for the top 5 which met once a fortnight for 15 minutes at lunchtime to basically be told work hard and you can do it). He was probably just scrapping 5th place and the other kids in the group got most of the academic prizes in his year, ds said they were incredibly clever and he understood them getting the prizes as and he didn't enjoy being in the spotlight anyway.

He did get one prize in S3 for Graphic Communications - he couldn't understand why, he hated the subject, dropped it as soon as he could and never put any effort into it. We think they just gave him one because he was in that group and the core/science subjects were already given to the others.

Like all subjective rewards, prize giving can have the opposite effect from the intended one.
Eg girl at DDs school was given an award for having attended every single orchestra rehearsal and concert. However so did DD, but DD didn't get an award.
Whilst I appreciate that due to circs, this may have been a much greater achievement for the other girl, but the other kids aren't to know that, and they were all demoralised at not being recognised.

I have asked not to be included in the reward and recognition scheme at work for similar reasons. I am fed up of project managers being rewarded for delivering a project, which they couldn't possibly have done without a brilliant team who put in a lot of overtime. Or of being singled out myself for something I couldn't have achieved without a lot of support.

It starts at school, and continues throughout life. You're either the personality type that gets you recognised, or you're not.

Haven’t read the full thread but my school was based on test/exam results (usually prelims for older years) for our “attainment” award and then for our “achievement” award it was usually decided by teachers and was generally someone who had improved significantly over the year

Both of my DCs get given prizes all the time for attainment. They are both exceedingly bright (they get it from their dad!), and find school very easy. They are not really bothered about the prizes, and I know that they don't put in half the effort that they should. (Although they do not misbehave and are good terms with the teachers). I really think that prizes should focus more on effort, overcoming adversity and being a good member of the school community.

I was lucky and worked hard enough to come top in a few subjects at my (small, low performing) secondary school. I was proud of this of course but quite sad that the one I got the prize for was the one I really didn't like at all, and not the three I loved and was going on to do for A level. Had forgotten that til now! Not that I expected to get prizes for all of them of course but I swear to God they just went, oh Enter can get the X prize, no one else wants that. Felt like after 5 years in the school and working my arse off in challenging classes (in terms of disruption) plus doing loads of extra curriculars etc, they didn't know or care about me at all.

OP, I do suspect that your friends' kids' "very deep and out-of-the-box questions on things relating to the topic but perhaps not within the narrow frame of the curriculum" are actually either trying to disrupt the class by asking totally irrelevant/distracting things, or don't have the awareness to realise that by changing the subject quite a lot they might be driving the planned lesson off course. I hope the teachers have the good sense and kindness to suggest that the kids stay behind after class to discuss it properly, or give them some further reading so they can get deeper into their topics.

There are certainly teachers who don't know their subjects well (I had a few, mostly teaching in a subject they'd never qualified in due to staff shortages) but the vast majority know far more than any of their kids can hope to reach by the time they leave school! It's only a certain kind of parent who assumes that the teachers are ignorant/can't keep up with their little dears.

One of the schools I worked in (I had nothing to do with prize giving) it was always the same kids year after year. So much that by year 9 no one really attended the prize giving unless they knew they had an award which by then they knew which students it would be. It was really sad actually. And nothing changed even when pointed out by numerous people that it needed shaking up.

I feel quite ambivalent about awards.
The bright children are already reward by being bright. They've 'won' already by being clever. They'll get good grades, go on to university, get god jobs.
The musical kids get recognition by playing in concerts, the sporty ones by being in sports teams etc.
Who 'works hard' can be quite subjective. My DD who at secondary had undiagnosed SEN had to focus so hard at school that managing any homework at all was a massive achievement because she was so exhausted. Similarly she had no spare capacity for after school clubs.
I'm not saying they shouldn't happen, but it does seem a bit 'to him that hath more shall be given'.

I see your point but I don't think this is necessarily the case "The bright children are already reward by being bright. They've 'won' already by being clever. They'll get good grades, go on to university, get good jobs."

The ones with confidence and/or well connected or pushy parents might (in the OP she's talking about private schools so that's probably most), but there were plenty of kids at my school who were really bright but never got any encouragement at home, any idea of what they could achieve, or any congratulations. In some cases that held them back from reaching their potential at exams (once they reached mid-late teens and there were things to distract them), in other cases they got good grades then didn't know what to do with them and ended up in dead-end jobs etc.

Being told "you're good, we rate you" is important and it's wrong to assume that all the bright kids get this.

Being told "you're good, we rate you" is important and it's wrong to assume that all the bright kids get this.

I agree everyone needs positive feedback and encouragement. But prizes that only go to a few is maybe not the way to do it. It might help some of the few who win, but what of the almost as deserving who don't win? Does this 'build resilience' or just increase feelings of 'not being good enough'? I'm not sure

I agree, we only had prizes after we'd "left" so that wasn't really a thing (as it might be with annual prize givings). I think there were a lot of prizes that weren't for academic excellence particularly though, for example for people who had progressed, people who'd contributed with things like voluntary work. Rewarding a wide range of things is good.

You can't give prizes to everyone though, that's probably where daily encouragement and praise should be stronger from teachers.