Year 8 boy - Maths. I can't figure out whats going wrong.

[MissyB1]

Ds always struggles in maths exams/ tests. He has done since primary school. He doesnt struggle in most other subject tests - only Maths. They have just had their end of year 8 exams, in most subjects (Geography, History English etc) he got 80 - 85%, 70% for Science. Maths was 22%!!! Eeek!
I know for a fact he revised every day for Maths for weeks, we bought a revision guide, I asked his teacher for the topics in plenty of time. We set him work ourselves. This was not a lack of revision. He put in far more preperation for Maths than any other subject.
His Maths teacher says he's perfectly capable and grasps the concepts. However he frequently needs our support with Maths homework. Poor ds doesnt know what is going wrong. Any suggestions? And what do I say to the school? I'm planning an email because this can't carry on, it happens every year. He will fail the GCSE if this doesnt get tackled. I am at a loss as to what we can do.
He's had tutors in the past, they say he can do it but struggles to recall what he's been taught. This is not the case for any other subject.
Please advise.

I know for a fact he revised every day for Maths for weeks, we bought a revision guide, I asked his teacher for the topics in plenty of time. We set him work ourselves. This was not a lack of revision. He put in far more preperation for Maths than any other subject.

His Maths teacher says he's perfectly capable and grasps the concepts.

Ok, you want to know what is going wrong but you haven't said anything about how he is actually getting on with the maths he's doing.

His maths teacher says he is capable in lessons, grasps the concepts. You say he has revised lots so it's not lack of work. You also say that he needs support with homework and also that he has done badly in maths exams since primary.

So is he capable and grasps the concepts and just does badly in exams (which could be issues with anxiety around timed exams) or is he not actually capable and doesn't grasp the concepts?

When he was doing all this revision, was he actually getting the work right? You said you were setting him work, were you marking it? What sorts of mistakes was he making? Was he able to eventually get questions right? Was he then able to get the same questions right the next day? It is quite easy in maths to do lots of 'revision' and not make the slightest bit of progress through doing the wrong things (e.g. just copying examples, or just watching videos or doing a lot of questions and not marking them so not being aware they're wrong, or getting them wrong then not doing anything about it).

One thing to check is the 22% mark - how does this compare to the rest of the class? Is the teacher concerned? Because at GCSE on a foundation paper, 22% could be a grade 4 pass and be fine, it does depend on the level that the paper was set at and the expectation of the group he's in.

There are lots of questions that need answering before a plan of action can be implemented - a priority would be to get the exam paper back and have a look at where he is going wrong. Were there questions that he definitely should have got right, that you know he knew how to do, that he didn't?

I don't know about what you can expect from a private school, but asking the teacher to look through it with him and reporting back what the teacher thinks the issues are would be helpful.

(Dyscalculia, by the way, unlike dyslexia, isn't really a recognised thing. Generally children who display signs of 'dyscalculia' either have other SEN like poor working memory that particularly comes to the fore in maths, or poor mathematical foundations that create problems with later learning).

So I have found out that amongst his set (they are set 2, there are only 3 sets), the highest mark was 38%. Bizarre!

Yes when we set him work for revision Dh was marking it, he found ds was often getting the methods right but making silly mistakes on calculations. However sometimes it was clear he had forgotten the method.
The teacher is going to go through the paper with each child and show them where they went wrong, and then link each area to their Dr Frost platform for them to practice.
I need to see that paper though to get my head around it.

You really need someone with some maths teaching experience to do a bit of digging and identify what is going wrong - whether it's recall, understanding questions, not knowing tables, not really understanding fractions, not recognising the question and method needed when lots of topics are jumbled up, etc. Given that you're paying for the schooling, it's not unreasonable to ask that the school do at least that much, so that you have more idea what needs working on over the summer.

Having seen your latest post, either that was an inappropriate test for the group, or something is going wrong with the teaching.
Do they revisit things regularly, or do they teach topic once and then expect the children to remember everything at the end of the year?

If they are doing the same test as set 1, then getting results that low as a class isn't necessarily unusual, and it would be useful to know the results in set 1 for comparison (I would expect an overlap at the bottom end set 1/top of set 2).

I would always give a class average and tell the group to compare themselves to the average rather than worry about the absolute mark.

As I said, 22% could be a grade 4 at GCSE on the same paper that set 1 are sitting so there will be a wide range of results among students sitting the same paper. It's not great but that's how maths is ultimately assessed.

Yes it was the same test as set 1. The highest mark in set 1 was 80% - ds best friend. But there was some overlap in a couple of kids towards the bottom end.

I will try and chat to his teacher about why his revision didn’t translate into a better mark, and what to do differently from now on.

You seemed to be worried that he would fail his GCSEs if he carries on with these scores - it would be worth asking what sort of GCSE grades would be expected from a student in set 2 performing at that level.

If the highest mark in set 1 was 80% that also suggests that it was a pretty difficult test - it's not necessarily that anything has gone terribly wrong with your DS's revision.

I do try to have conversations with my classes about how low percentage doesn't always mean poor performance for them at their level when this sort of issue comes up, to try to manage expectations!

I also agree with Plantstrees.

My mum's a maths tutor (still teaching in her 70s!) She's always said it is more important to understand why you're doing what you're doing rather than try to memorise maths. If you understand why then you don't need to try to recall methods when tested. She favours pencil and squared paper and writing down all the processes. Perhaps an older, more traditional tutor would help him with this.

Also I have found my yr 10 dc has always been given very hard maths tests (same one for all sets like your son) and scored badly, so demoralising for them really :(

@noblegiraffe Because at GCSE on a foundation paper, 22% could be a grade 4 pass and be fine,

Far be it from me to query you, but can you confirm whether you actually meant to say Higher paper rather than Foundation?

Hah, thanks Teen, yes I did! 22% on the foundation paper would not be a 4. 22% on higher could be. Roll on the summer holidays.

Get a dyscalculia assessment with a educational special needs assessor/physiologist.

he sounds like a bright boy but something in his brain is unable to process an area of maths.

if he’s had tutors etc then further repetition may not be helpful.

get to the root cause and THEN implement strategies.

I really would get a professional on it as he’s got no other issues so it stands out as a red flag that it’s more than just “repetition”.

you’d then get the help that’s actually going to help. Or at least some sign posting towards it.

look for a private assessor.

5th grade math worksheets cover a variety of topics. In addition to addition and subtraction, students will learn place value, rounding, fractions, and decimals. Then, they'll work with measurement, geometry, and word problems. They can practice these skills in the comfort of their own home, without having to spend money on a program. Some worksheets offer timed practice for each operation, which can be very helpful for students who have trouble recalling information quickly.

He might just not be a maths person, as long as he gets a grade 4 at GCSE it doesn't matter. Let's face it how much from what we learned in maths at school do we use in real life? If he can do basic mental arithmetic, measure & work out areas & understand weights he will be ok. My ds got good GCSE grades at GCSE & was in top sets for everything but maths, he got a grade 4 for foundation GCSE. It hasn't held him back, he now works in local party politics. When he starts his GCSE course you could always get a tutor, that's what I did.

Hi op. I have read most but not all of the thread, so apologies for any repetition.

Your poor DS, it must be really upsetting to feel like you just aren't getting anywhere despite putting the work in.

I thnk you need to go back to basics, as if you don't grasp and apply those then everything else goes to pot.

He is in y8, but go back to y6 and build from there. Place value, times tables, written multiplication and division, fractions, decimals, percentages. Get some of the CGP workbooks - eg SATS questions/SATS "stretch" as these will help you bring him up to the level that it is expected for kids starting secondary school. Y6 really does lay the foundations for ks3, and once you have those foundations a whole lot more falls into place easily.

I would make sure he’s got solid foundations, does he know number bonds and times tables? Does he understand fractions? Makes a huge difference when doing more complex maths because you’re not devoting brain power to the basics.

I’m an SEN teacher in secondary, I find lots of dice games can help kids without number bond knowledge, also explicitly teaching quicker methods of adding and subtracting without counting one by one, sometimes it doesn’t occur to children to use alternatives.

I’d definitely expect school to be on this. You Working with him yourself this summer will give you an idea of what issue is.
I wonder if it’s just sheer panic. He worries about doing badly, panics, mind blank. Vicious circle. So some general recall and relaxation techniques may help.

Dr Frost is very good once you navigate it for your own circumstances. On ours you can do literally vast numbers of repetition questions and use the short video tutorials which you know teach the same method

Yes he’s going through Dr Frost tonight looking at the topics that caught him out in the exam.

Ive emailed his maths teacher and the head of academics, to voice my concern, and ask for their advice and opinions.

As it obviously isn't just him, it sounds like the maths teaching has been poor and the school need a kick up the arse.

His maths teacher is really a science teacher. I think there is a National shortage of maths teachers 🙁

You are paying for a private school where Maths is taught by non-specialists????

Ummmm …..

Update: I’ve got an appointment with the head of Maths faculty next Monday morning. Let’s hope she has some ideas.

I'm a maths tutor. If I was working with a student in this situation I would ask for a photocopy of his maths exam, and an outline of the syllabus for the year. Then I'd cross reference the questions he found most tricky with the syllabus to see what exactly was covered ( all schools do ks3 differently so it can be hard to know how "far" to take a topic). Then I'd work on the those areas. Dr Frost videos are good. I think CorbettMaths offered a slower gradation of progress through questions though which might be useful if he is finding Dr Frost questions get too hard too fast.

@MissyB1

i agree with some that it could be the actual genuine understanding of maths and grasping the concept. My son struggled with this and it turned out there was fundamental gaps in his learning. I got him a Tutor for 11plus and she was amazing. She didn’t ‘tutor’ she taught him concept and how to apply that, got him thinking! she will continue to teach him concept so I know that he continues his understanding at least through the Year 7 transition. He is going to a private secondary school in September so it’s double paying but we will be keeping her on standby after Year 7 for the entire journey to prevent and dips, especially as his working memory is slightly below average. He has been diagnosed with autism, is exceptionally bright but only in things he is interested in which extremely frustrating!