AQA Science Foundation - max grade 5?

[PatDuffy]

I've twins, boy and a girl in Year 9.

The boy was in a low maths class, but at the top. Found everything far too easy. I demanded they moved him up, the school argued, I said he'd stay home on days with maths classes. He now has the highest marks in that new class. He's actually pretty capable but lazy - needs more of a challenge.

His sister is now the worry. In year 7 she came second in a race for the entire year (300 kids). They put her in the least capable PE class with kids that hate her. She's also in the least capable science classes. She started secondary with a great attitude, ambitions to go to a good university, she applied herself and, was always studying independently, but always scored low on the actual tests - now she's talking about working in Tescos....The other kids in her class disrupt, argue back to the teacher, and throw things at the her and call her names. Every lesson.

The school have now assigned her in the AQA GCSE Foundation path which basically means she can't achieve more than a grade 5. This seems like a failure of the school saying that "we can't educate her". This has almost destroyed her motivation completely.

So this week she got a Biology mark of 30/40. This was a higher mark than all the kids we know of who are on the Triple Science path....

What I guess I'm asking is, is it ethically correct to effectively tell students, "you must take a reduce content course restricting your grades and outcomes because we are not able to teach you."

Do I have any options to change this?

Wow you sound pleasant -
how on earth do you know other kids results?
Also school aren’t saying that - they’re saying that she will do better on that test and if she did the higher there’s potential to fail
also nothing wrong with working at tescos - in fact the money is good and also room to progress.

if you are being so demanding to the school what are you saying to your daughter who is obviously not trying x

Also if this supposedly happens every lesson ( I doubt it very much) then why aren’t you pulling her out and home schooling as you obviously know better x

If your daughter has just got a good mark on recent test, that seems to suggest that the school can educate her? So I'm not sure what your point is. If she's previously been doing badly in tests, then she will be a in lower set.

I do think Year 9 is early to decide Foundation/Higher levels. Are you sure they are set in stone at this point? Otherwise I'd suggest discussing with the school that your daughter's most recent grade suggests that she is more capable than currently assumed and ask if she can be moved. But they may not move her on the basis of one test. I would also talk to the school about behaviour in lessons. There shouldn't be constant disruption and your daughter should not have to put up with name calling or things thrown at her.
I would suggest working with, rather than against the school though. If your are very unhappy with it, you could always consider moving your DC?

You are right that with Foundation papers you can't go above a 5.
Are you sure she actually sat the same paper as those heading for triple science?
If you really think she could do better then go and plead your case.
DD's school didn't set tiers for papers until much later than y9.

Was it the same Biology test? Foundation covers less material.

Movement between higher and foundation tier can happen even on the day of the exam. If she's only in yr 9, there's plenty of time for her to demonstrate that the higher paper would suit her better. Or even move from double to triple, but that would be more unlikely as I imagine it would involve timetable changes and her having to drop something else to have more science lessons.
How on earth do you know the marks of other students ? Surely you'd only know a couple, if any, that your daughter was friendly with. Did they even sit the same paper, if they are studying a different path?
I'd give it until at least October half term or even Christmas before having a chat with her science teachers. Demanding changes based on one biology paper, where you think you know how your dd fared compared to all the other students, is foolish and will make you remembered at 'that parent'.

There is amost certainly scope to get moved onto the higher tier, assuming she is more than capable of the lowest grade (which I think is a 4).
It sounds like it's her test scores letting her down. Her attitude sounds positive given her last test mark. Do you get the papers back? Can you look at where she is dropping marks? If the papers stay at school, I'd get a Y9 science workbook, and go through it, looking at how she answers stuff compared to the answers. It will help if you can identify where she is loosing marks - one or 2 off every question, or completely missing the point on some and doing well in others.

It may well be the kids on the triple pathway had a different test (and maybe even the higher and foundation combined kids could have Ssat different papers).

Forget about the other kids in her class, and get her marks up.

One race and one test aren’t enough to base sets on. There is a limit to what can be achieved just through hard work and they may feel that she doesn’t have the ability to keep up as the work increases in amount and complexity. The sets aren’t usually fixed until after year 10 and even then they can usually move between foundation and higher.
I think it can be really tough for hard workers in low sets. The reality is that there is more disruption. Have you spoken to school? Do you need to consider changing schools?

Teachers telling DC's position in the school of a subject even I didn't ask.

Thanks to everyone for the replies, the responses are appreciated.

I learned from their primary school that teachers favour some kids, especially kids in the extra ciricular clubs who were always picked for the best sports and drama spots. The boy was fairly useless at sports but the girl excelled at running - beating everyone else on sports day but was never picked for anything during the year (the PE teachers happened to run extra ciricular clubs she wasn't in and they always picked the kids who also attended those, the ones she would beat on sports day). She's very well behaved, considerate and mindful of others, but shy and lacking in self esteem. Doesn't like attention. I've seen other parents kick up a fuss about their kids not getting this, not getting that, etc and never wanted to be that sort. But my kids have been left out because I didn't stand up for them. I'm not making that mistake in secondary - the facts are that sometimes good kids are mixed with disruptive ones, don't get picked for anything because they fly under the radar, etc. There rarely seems fair rotation so everyone gets a chance. So, I'm kinda fine being "that parent", as much as I don't want to have to be.

The results we know of are friends of the boy who are in top sets, so we can only compare those and her friends. The boy is in triple, he says they had the same questions as foundation sets this term. Changes come in yr 10 I believe. I understand that they teach reduced content so a switch to combined/triple is unlikely later as catching up will be more problematic?

The girl is self motivated and studies at least twice as hard as her friends, when they go out, she often chooses to study instead when a test is on the horizon, aside from a few "what's the point." moments. Her friends tend to do better in tests because she makes mistakes - something I'll help her with now it's come to light. I don't push or drive her at any level until recently, when I see her ambitions/motivation being destroyed. Her attitude is fast becoming, "If the school don't believe I can do it, why should I think I can. I might as well give up now."

I do think that forcing kids to take a path that separates them and tells them "You can never achieve anything anything but this low level" is inherently wrong. They should at least have the chance to shoot for the moon, if they want to. I can only believe it's designed to improve the schools stats rather than the kids education?

With 300 kids in their year, a large percentage of constant everyday low level bullying, teachers stretched and often absent covered by temps who can't control some elements of the class, then yes I'm looking at changing, or homeschooling.

WoWsers16 - with regards to the Tescos thing which has clearly upset you - I've always told the kids I'm happy for them to work any job if it's what makes them happy as long as they aren't doing it because it's their only option. If they have the qualifications to be a <insert brainy job> but want to a stack shelves that's absolutely fine by me - I'm 100% behind them. They know there's nothing wrong with those jobs.

FWIW our school only decided at the last moment who would do Foundation paper Maths and who would do Higher. They are now all in the midst of GCSEs. If your child wishes to study either combined or triple science however, they need to decide early, because (as everyone says), the jump from one to the other is difficult the further you get through the curriculum.

I'm sorry if your child comes "under the radar". But that's life. Our DC has too - it's only now, approaching A levels, that they are being noticed for their talents (and all children have talents). You can shout loudly, and it might help your son or daughter be noticed, but it might not. The majority of children do seem to fit into the forgotten-middle ground, neither the most talented, nor the most disruptive.

Your attitude, whatever that is, will determine how your child approaches things. And if you feel that they are being disadvantaged then, of course, you should fight their corner. But the school might (I emphasise MIGHT) see your child in a different light to the way that you see them.

There is also a Double Science award between foundation and triple.

My kids go to a 300 pupil entry comp and science is split into double and triple. The decision about whether you do foundation or higher is taken in year 11 just before GCSEs because nobody knows what level they will be until then. My kids school start the GCSE syllabus in year 9'

I'm not saying you should challenge this, as if she is generally not doing very well in tests (do you ever help her with revision?) then Foundation level might well be correct. However here is a suggested email.

Dear Head of Science

I understand that DD has been assigned into a Foundation level pathway for science for GCSE. I'd like to understand what this was based on and whether there is flexibility in y10 for this to change of DD shows herself more able.

DD reports back to us that in the recent Biology test she did as well as others who are planning on triple science, which if accurate would show she is capable of higher tier, though obviously DD might have got this wrong / the others might have sat a harder paper.

My understanding is that many schools don't make tier decisions until year 11. Unless it is clear she would not cope, our current feeling is we would prefer her to start in a Higher tier science pathway, even if she then had to move back in year 10.

I look forward to hearing from you.

I do think that forcing kids to take a path that separates them and tells them "You can never achieve anything anything but this low level" is inherently wrong. They should at least have the chance to shoot for the moon, if they want to. I can only believe it's designed to improve the schools stats rather than the kids education?

No, it is not 'designed to improve the schools stats'. Do you think schools separate kids arbitrarily into foundation and higher?

Do you think that it is reasonable to enter a child for a paper where they don't have a chance of answering the vast majority of the questions because it is beyond their academic ability simply because you want them to have a chance to 'shoot for the moon'?

Foundation and higher tiers exist because some kids are better at science (and maths) than other kids, and all kids deserve to sit an exam that is at least reasonable for their level (i.e. not ridiculously easy or not stupidly hard). Tier of entry decisions are not based on one test, but performance over time. If your DD wants to be entered for higher then there is still time. She needs to ask her teachers what she needs to do to demonstrate suitability for higher tier, and then do it.

It may also be down to timetabling , so a lower maths set may mean being with same pupils for Science.

A comment on Higher v Foundation science. In y10 my DD was in a 'crossover' set where it wasn't clear what they would sit. For tests DD couldn't cope with learning all the content, and some harder content she couldn't grasp. In March y10 we agreed at parents evening she would go for Foundation and I was happily pleased to find all the stuff she couldn't do was higher tier, and the stuff she could was foundation. ie It seems to be split well. (And then she didn't do science GCSE anyway.)

Unless it has changed again recently, 'Double' (combined science) means that you sit exams in all three sciences, but the outcome is a linked 2 GCSEs? Whereas 'Triple' means that the outcome is three individual GCSEs, one in each subject. Either versions can be sat at Foundation or Higher tier.

@PatDuffy how is your DD with the Physics and Chemistry elements of the curriculum?

Under the new system, if doing double science (or whatever it is now called) you can't mix & match tiers, so it is either foundation for all or higher for all.

In my ds1's school triple science was an option for all - to choose as an option.. Some very bright kids chose just 'science' (ie foundation papers) so they could do another option which they preferred. I didn't realise you could get max of 5.

You are confusing 2 choices.
It is Triple v Double (3 GCSEs or 2)
&& Higher v Foundation. (grade 3/3-9/9, or grades 1/1-5/5)

Generally of course people who like science enough to do Triple also tend to be more able so expect to do Higher, but it is possible for a Triple Science person to do Foundation tier, or maybe Higher for 2 subjects and Foundation for the third.

Also of course many schools teach Triple at a faster rate, and so only permit more able scientists to do it.

I think there is a confusion here. Ds and dd both did ‘double’ science - ie 3 sciences covered; 2 GCSEs, 2 grades. It’s what their school did for everyone, to give a wide spread of other choices (5 genuine options)

DD got 9/9 - then went on to get A* in an A level science.

Foundation is not the same as double science award. In double science, hades up to 9 9 are available.

Apologies - x post.

@MarchingFrogs exactly. So Higher and Foundation could apply to one or other?

Yes. Not all schools offer both double and triple science, it may be one or the other, or both. However both double and triple science are able to be sat at either higher or foundation tier (you do the same tier for all papers). So options are:

Double Higher (3 subjects, 2 GCSEs, grades 3-3 to 9-9)
Double Foundation (3 subjects, 2 GCSEs, grades 1-1 to 5-5)
Triple Higher (3 subjects, 3 GCSEs, grades 3, 3, 3 to 9,9,9)
Triple Foundation (3 subjects, 3 GCSEs, grades 1,1,1 to 5,5,5)

If the school offers both double and triple, this needs to be decided on fairly early on as the triple covers much more content and will likely have more timetabled lessons. However once the double/triple choice has been made, then the question of higher or foundation can be made much closer to the exam depending on performance in tests etc. Higher/foundation can be changed up to the day of the first exam but in reality most teachers will have had the discuss with student/parents by around January in yr11.