Clergy form

[Frogusha]

Not an education topic really but related - for secondary schools where a clergy form is required is it customary to give something to the priest? Do you give at the time you give the form or pick up the signed form? How much? Wouldn't want to offed with too little / too much so that it looks like a bribe. I presume one should give, as you'd give for any other service like baptism / communion / mass.

I worked for churches for years and the form was always given one Sunday at church (or emailed obv) and then collected another Sunday. Is this not an option?

I would have thought any money would be inappropriate, especially if it's for a UK state school. Make your donation to the church in general.

Definitely not, nobody I know did this (oversubscribed C of E secondary school). In recent years, you've had to line up in a local hall to get your form signed so I would have seen anyone slipping the vicar a tenner!

We had to go to church at least twice a month for a year. On each seat, with the order of service, there were little envelopes to put collection money in. On the outside of the envelope you could fill in name and address for gift aid, which is as good a way as any of making sure they have a record of your attendance - some churches have a register, but not all. I didn't give anything when the priest signed the form - it was an appointment at the vicarage for us.

I wouldnt guarantee that the gift aid envelopes give the vicar/priest a record of your attendance - they'll usually go to the treasurer to deal with, and they don't report to the clergy on who is giving.

Some of this conversation reads really oddly to me. Giving money to a church is supposed to be about supporting the work of the church, not pay-per-view. Most regular attenders I know give by standing order, which guarantees that the church doesn't lose income if they're away one weekend, and makes budgeting easier for the parish.

If you really want to make the clergy smile, keep attending regularly once your child has the school place.

Completely and utterly inappropriate. It would embarrass the priest I'd have thought. And any whiff of payment for getting a place in a a state school...

If you want to support the church, put something in the collection in the normal way, anonymously.

I wouldnt guarantee that the gift aid envelopes give the vicar/priest a record of your attendance

If a church has no formal means of recording attendance, you can potentially sue them if they refuse to sign your form. Of course, it should never come to that, but priests have certainly been threatened with it (For example: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3058234/amp/Vicar-won-t-pick-pupils-based-religion-Church-England-school-dropped-faith-selection.html). By filling in the gift aid form you have created your own record of attendance. It doesn't matter whether that information is shared with the priest or not - the fact that it exists is enough. If the vicar doubts your attendance, you can politely suggest he talks to his treasurer.

By filling in the gift aid form you have created your own record of attendance.

Not really. My parents used to gift aid to their church, they had a supply of envelopes and if DM couldn't go DF would put hers in as well. All the treasurer would know is that somehow she'd made her donation, not that she'd actually attended the service.

You're missing the point. If the church provides no formal register of attendance, but refuses to sign an attendance form, they are wide open to litigation. If a parent has creates their own record of attendance, then that can be presented as evidence to back up their case. Otherwise it is just their word against the vicar's. If it does go to court, and there are gift aid records, the judge is likely to believe the parent - they will be making their judgement on the balance of probabilities (not "beyond reasonable doubt" as in a criminal case). If the vicar tried to argue, without evidence, that the donations were made remotely, he'd get short shrift.

... Hence, the Church of England pro-atively advises churches that are near faith-selected schools to provide attendance registers.

The OP didn't mention anything like the priest refusing to sign an attendance form. she's asking about whether she should be giving the priest money.

And any whiff of payment for getting a place in a a state school...

Voluntary aided faith schools rely on parental donations and fundraising activities for 10% of their capital costs - hence the name "voluntary aided". If your child goes to a VA school you are likely to be asked for regular donations. They're meant to be voluntary, but in practice schools do put pressure on parents. We used to get personally addressed reminders, handed out to children in class, to bring home, on red paper!

But you don't pay anything up front in hope of securing a place, do you?

If you're meant to give them money then there'll be an admin fee on a price list somewhere surely? Like when you have to pay at the doctors. I shouldn't think you'd have to pay anything? Just keep going and worshipping the lord.

The Admissions Code prevents it from being mentioned in the application process. But that's why it comes as a surprise to parents later, when they get the letter requesting money.

No need to worship Attendance is usually enough to satisfy the wording of the admissiins criteria.

Voluntary aided faith schools rely on parental donations and fundraising activities for 10% of their capital costs - hence the name "voluntary aided".

That's not what it means - the 10% is supposed to be paid by the school's foundation or trust. 'Voluntary controlled' schools have all their funding met by the state but were then controlled by the LEA. VA schools may request donations from parents (as can any school afaik?) but they should not be relying on them.

That's very naive of you Errol. Where do you think the foundation or trust gets the money?! In these times of falling church attendance they completely rely on parental contributions. It is made very clear in the letters sent out to parents that they are expected to contribute.

Surely your minister/vicar would know that you are a regular attender?

You only need to Google the words:

"Voluntary Aided" foundation parent contribution

The results will include lots of schools which openly put details about their expectations on their website.

Never heard this before.

(churchwarden here).

Also, if you read the Annual Reports of the Catholic Education Service, they usually give details of how much capital expenditure they have contributed to their schools. If you divide it by the numbers of pupils in those schools it comes out as around £30-£40 per head per.year, which is approximately the level of contribution asked for by schools (I haven't checked it recently, but that was certainly the case a few years ago).

You’re right if the person in question is going to church for any reason other than to secure a school place. I don’t know anyone of my generation who goes regularly other than for a school place though.

OP, you don’t need to give a donation when the priest signs the form.

I don’t think this is correct. There are (too) many faith selected schools where I live and none of the associated churches keep a register of attendance.

Well... one school I know of did it rather neatly, there was an on-site caretakers house so the LEA paid them rent. I suppose that's how it was meant to work - if a school didn't have some means of paying the 10%, it should be VC not VA.