Switching prep losing fees

[dancingthelightfantastic]

I wonder if anyone has any experience of the following..

We have two children at prep school and whilst we will be keeping our eldest at the school, for personal reasons we do not feel it's the right place for our DD and are looking to move her for Sept. However this would mean forfeiting a terms fees to her school in Leiu of notice. Friends have advised refusing to pay the fees (which are quite substantial £4k) but we worry that would jeopardise our DS place and as we intend to leave him there for the time being (yr 5 so leaving yr 7/8). We can't entertain moving him as he is happy and at a critical point in terms of learning / exams etc.
Not sure what to do? Any suggestions would be gratefully received! new school are unable to discount their fees as oversubscribed...🤔

I don’t know why you think you shouldn’t pay. It is June. The school has had to recruit staff and timetable for the year ahead well before this. Your child not being there will already mean a loss of their fees for terms 2 and 3 next year. They require a term’s fees in lieu of notice to mitigate some of the costs.

Have you thought about it from their POV? If they let you off, they bear all the cost of the empty place. They also set a precedent for people randomly leaving, which makes the school financially unstable. This is of course problems for all the families with kids in the school now and in future, as well as the staff.

The most you can do is to very politely request consideration for a reduction in the amount you will owe. Point out that your other child will remain and you are very happy with the school and that it is because a specialist school and has come up that you’re taking the opportunity, but that fees at both places will be difficult. Acknowledge and show understanding of the fact they request fees in lieu of notice, but ask if there is any possibility if some flexibility and reduction. And wait to see.

Don’t start from any point of entitlement to not pay. And don’t expect not to pay. Expect to pay and simply see it as a bonus if you get a reduction.

You signed the contract and agreed the terms. You wanted the school to be on a stable financial footing and presumably still do for your other child, so just cough up the money that you owe. You can ask, but if the answer is ‘no’ accept it and pay. Cancel your holiday or find some other way to cut back if necessary, but accept the financial responsibility you signed up to. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but this is something you signed up to willingly and isn’t something to try and wriggle out of.

You signed a contract, which is standard for any fee-paying school, and you have to abide by it. The school may not be able to fill the vacant place for September at this late stage, because it's too late in the day for another pupil to give notice where they are and move for September without also incurring double fees. The onus was on you to organise the new school place and give notice in good time. Surely that is obvious? Your friends are giving you bad advice. I'm afraid the idea that private schools are all awash with money and can just do without your £4k, and anyone else's who happens to feel like not giving a term's notice, is nonsense. Many private schools are fighting to survive.

Many thanks for all of the useful suggestions, such as paying in instalments etc. We were really just looking for ideas particularly from others who had gone through the same scenario. We have supported the school in the past with donations and time and of course I did not divulge why we are choosing to remove DD. When canvasing a fellow set of parents who choose to leave for similar reasons, they suggested withholding the fees, as the school had failed their DD's - it was merely a suggestion!
First time posting on Msnet - not sure I shall be brave enough in the future!😳

If the school has in some way failed your DD, take that up with the governors. You didn't mention that in your first post, you simply implied you'd found something you preferred and that you didn't want to honour your contract in terms of payments. If the school has seriously failed in its duty, and you have realised this only since the deadline for paying fees elapsed, them possibly you have grounds to go and negotiate. But it seems a little sudden if all was well at Easter and you didn't want to give your notice then!

Mumsnet can be tough. If posters think you're being unreasonable, they will say so. But it can also be a wonderfully helpful and supportive place. Stick around and you'll see some of that too. But unless something has gone so wrong at the school that your daughter was somehow endangered, I don't think not paying fees is an option.

A term’s notice would have been at Easter.

So you have gone from happy with the school at Easter (or at least happy enough to think DD would be there next year), to feeling it has failed your DD so badly that she can’t stay there, in the space of 6 or so weeks.

You’re happy for your DS to stay so you clearly don’t think it’s a terrible school. And you haven’t told the school the reason for leaving, so it’s presumably not something like bullying or teacher behaviour which you would have raised with them.

I must say am really wondering what could have happened. Can you say?

This isn’t just curiousity on my part, it’s relevant to your question.

If the school have really cocked up in some way then they are less likely to pursue you for the fees, for fear of negative publicity and/or a counterclaim from you. But if they haven’t actually done anything wrong, you’ve just got her into a more sought after school for example, then you are at much greater risk of being pursued.

To be fair, that’s not necessarily how it works. They play mind games. We were terrified of removing our Ds from his school in case it was worse elsewhere and we kept thinking things would improve.

We requested a reduced late fees bill. They filled DDs place immediately and the late notice was beyond our control. The school were reasonable.

You can only ask and hope.
As experiences show, sometimes schools will reduce what you owe and sometimes they won’t. You can only ask.

Its a bonus if you get a reduction, but it’s best to expect you’ll have to pay. It’s hard to respect people who advised OP to refuse to pay, but doing that is very differ from politely requesting consideration of a reduction in the fees in lieu of notice. It’s not surprising there were some harsh responses to the suggestion of the friend and I don’t think OP can be surprised by those, if she’s read the replies and understands the reasons for fees in lieu of notice better now.

Some schools will fill the place instantly and be willing to waive the payment. Others will be more rigid in sticking to entitlement to claim a term’s fees. It depends on the financial position of school and frequency people are leaving or making a request for waiving of fees, and if they need to make an ‘example’ to other parents. What schools don’t want is word going round that it’s possible to leave at the drop of a hat with no financial penalty. Individual circumstances are often considered, but if parents don’t give any info about the reason for move, the school hasn’t got anything to consider. Op said they haven’t told the school why they’re going. Actually, giving the reason often helps. Financial difficulty is considered sympathetically usually and in this case Op said DC got a place at a specialist school. Although current school won’t be keen on short notice, they might well acknowledge this school offers something special for this child and that places that come up last minute need to be taken or lost and full notice isn’t always possible for such places. The current school might be more sympathetic to this than OP thinks. Appraoch often makes a difference. Open communication, being apologetic about short notice, asking for a reduction rather than demanding….all makes a mire favourable outcome more likely.

Certainky worth asking. If you don’t ask, you don’t get. Can’t expect it though, because essentially contract is being broken and the terms and consequences are clear and Op agreed to them.

@dancingthelightfantastic a close friend got out of paying a term's fee (£10k) due to safeguarding issues and school being inflexible when their DC was ill.

in this case Op said DC got a place at a specialist school. Although current school won’t be keen on short notice, they might well acknowledge this school offers something special for this child

I can’t see this anywhere?

Comefromaway I do understand that can happen and it can be very difficult. But usually people in that position would be very aware of notice periods and so will regard term changeover as the crunch time when they have to decide to move or keep hoping for improvement.

There is a question about ethics here too. Is it right to be trying to ‘get out of’ paying what you’ve contractually agreed to?

There can be a sense of entitlement amongst independent school parents, that they can have and do whatever they want…..that includes not paying for things they no longer want, despite contracts. Yes, a term’s fees is a lot of money ….but parents have signed up and agreed to it.

Fair enough if there are genuine reasons regarding school being negligent in it’s duty etc, but when really it’s just parents wanting to move on and looking for excuses to wriggle out of paying…..well that’s dubious, when they’ve freely accepted the place and it’s germs and conditions of notice.

Sorry, thought the OP mentioned a place at some kind of performing arts school. Perhaps I imagined that!

It was me, not the op who mentioned the performing arts school for dd.

with Ds we debated giving notice at Easter but school kept saying he won’t reach his potential etc etc. we’d just had his asd assessment and the outreach team were due to go in so we held out. But then half way through summer term things got to crisis point, school refused to implement the reasonable adjustments. However by that point they’d changed their minds and said that if we wished to withdraw him they would not charge fees in lieu.

There were other scenarios with other children I knew of such as low level but persistent bullying that wasn’t addressed that came to a head and school refused to act. So it can happen. But unfortunately in most cases you are still liable.

You ask the school nicely if they are likely to fill the place and would then consider waiving the fees - and if they say no you pay them.

@dancingthelightfantastic 8 years ago I did just this. My son and daughter were both at a very successful prep and while it had been fabulous for my son it was not the right fit for my daughter. I had applied for a place for her at a single sex prep which unfortunately had no space. 2 weeks before the end of term a place became available and we opened a dialogue with her prep regards moving her. Her brother was to stay in the school. The bursars from both school arranged a deal where my daughter started at the new prep in the September and they essentially waived their full fees while I paid her old prep their terms fee. The new prep was about £300 more a term and I I paid them just the difference. I was very open with her old prep that it although it was co-ed it was still run very much as a boys only prep and it didn't suit my girly girl at all.
It helps to be fully open with your daughters prep and keep mentioning all the positives you love about it and how it fits your son. My daughter thrived in her new prep. I wish you luck

This! The new school will not want to accept your daughter if you owe money to the old school and the old school will exclude your son and take you to court. Schools are pretty ruthless when it cones to fees. Any reason you can't wait a term?

So, essentially the OP should apply for a (single term) bursary for the new school? Hmm … Probably a bit late now - but she can only try. (Assuming her daughter has not already been awarded one.) Although … She has said they had been supporting the current school with donations; bursary recipients aren’t usually in a position to prop up schools …

(That was in response to Ohwiseone.)

Standard. One terms notice. Why didn't you give notice after Easter Holidays?

This.

Not sure why your friends are suggesting you breach a contract which will leave you at risk of legal action in a case you have no chance of winning. Get better friends!

Also, there may be a risk that future schools for your DS learn via the grapevine or just staff changes that you defaulted on fees for the previous school - ie you're seen as a financial risk.

This is a very good point. Schools talk to each other.