Secondary School Appeal SEN tomorrow!!!

[OhRex]

I feel I am a little late to the game, I just honestly didn’t think of looking on Mumsnet til now….

My 11yo daughter (ASC/SPD/anxiety) didn’t get into either of the secondary schools we applied for and was offered a place at our nearest secondary school.

She hated that school when we visited and became quickly overwhelmed and anxious. I declined the place as I felt that it would be harmful to the appeal if we accepted.

Our first place school has 682 applications for its 180 places. We were initially at 64 on the waitlist and are down to 28. She LOVED the school at the Open Evening - I have never seen her so engaged, she was in the science labs doing experiments, shooting basketball hoops in the gym (she hates any sport), she spent ages in the Art room (it’s her favourite). She was so happy and calm there.

We are out of catchment area for both our first and second choice schools and our social/medical appeal at time of applying was rejected as autism is so prevalent and all schools should be able to handle her.

ALL her friends are attending the 2 schools we didn’t get into.

Our argument is that we (parents, teachers, support workers, SENCOs) have spent 7 years helping her to make friends, nurturing those bonds and she finally has a tight team of girls around her who understand and support her. It is is unimaginable to me that she would be able to make what will be a very hard transition anyway, without the support and familiarity of those friends.

We have supporting letters from the SENCO, Family Support Worker, Headteacher, class teacher, her Autism diagnosis and report, all as evidence.

What do I need to say in the appeal?? I am crapping it.

Sorry, I can't help with the appeal process, but I am sure others will be along soon. Have you applied for an EHCP? It sounds like it would be very useful for your daughter to have that in place. Transition to secondary can be a very difficult time for children with ASC/SPD/anxiety; an EHCP should help to ensure she gets the support she needs to help her to succeed.

Thank you, we applied for an EHCP but the educational psychologist who assessed her deemed her not suitable and said she was coping well (have they not heard of masking????). 🙄

(We'll skip over your plans if the appeal fails, but you really should have accepted the offered school.)

Apart from friendships what else do you have?

• is pastoral care demonstrably better at preferred school to the one you turned down?


• do they have any extra curricular that your DD would particularly benefit from?


• is it a smaller school, with a calmer environment?

Do the supporting letters say 'in our opinion it is important she goes up with friends' or the much less strong 'Mum says it's important to go up with friends'

What was wrong with the school you got? My son is asc,adhd, Tourette’s and has anxiety disorder. His main stream secondary wasn’t the place I thought he would flourish in, but he has, he’s really popular and has came on so much. I get friendships are important but it’s not up to her friends to help her, it’s lovely if they do but don’t rely on them.
I hope you get a school that is right for your daughter but I didn’t think you’ve got grounds to appeal and by turning down your offered school your daughter now has no school

Thanks @TeenPlusCat

Yeah, we were advised by the SENCO to turn down the school she was offered (School B) as he said our case is that School A is the one we want as that is where she will be able to flourish, and accepting another school negates that argument?

Pastoral care is excellent - yr7 stay in form classes for all lessons, so she would be able to have friends support.

Will look into extra curricular stuff.

It has a very structured, organised environment- it’s all girls (to cut down on docusl anxiety) - and it has wide corridors and good size classrooms in new blocks. She has a fear of older buildings and has been very uncomfortable with some buildings we have visited/stayed in. She has anxiety issues over toileting and we weee impressed with the bathrooms there (I know, something I never thought I would have to be bothered about!!).

The supporting letters state that she has struggled massively in the past with change and friendships and that she has excelled in the last 2 years due to the foundations we have managed to put in place, and it is vital to her well-being and continued develop that these relationships continue.

I see your point @Notagain76 but she would literally know no-one at that school.

I quite liked it when we visited but she had such a visceral, obvious reaction to it that I don’t know how I could entertain it really?

I’d love for her to just be the kind of person who would fit in and make friends but she has never been like that. She finds making and maintaining friendships incredibly hard and stressful.

Its a massive struggle to get her to school some days as it is, and I can’t see how I would be able to encourage her without anyone there she knows. At 5ft 9, and nearly 12 stone, I can’t just man-handle her in there either.

I think your SENCO advised you badly, but that's by the by now.

Make sure all those things you wrote just now are clear in your appeal and evidenced as far as you can. You should compare these to the offered school I think, even though you turned it down.

(DD's college has some special 'anxiety toilets' - who knew there was such a thing?!)

Oh dear. Your SENCO really has not helped here. Parents sometimes wrongly believe that refusing the offered place will help them get an alternative offer from the LEA and/or win the appeal, but it doesn’t work like that. Appeal panels don’t like to feel that they’re being played and may be less inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt now than if you’d accepted the place but explained why your preferred school would be so much more suitable for your child’s needs.

But what’s done is done, so you need to explain to the panel (much as you have done here) why the preferred school will meet your child’s needs and why she will be disadvantaged if she doesn’t get a place.

Oh no @PanelChair - I just did as I was advised, DD is my eldest and I’ve never done this before.

I don’t want the panel to think we just want her to go to School A because her friends are there - it is so much more than that. In order for her to feel comfortable enough to even get through the door, she needs to know there will be someone she recognises and can trust. Her tics will be off the scale being in a new environment and with new people, following a new timetable etc etc and being around friends who understand and won’t be scared of her/freaked out by her is crucial.

Agree with Panelchair, your SENCO has very badly advised you. However, if it comes up and the panel ask why you turned the other school down, I would be very honest and say you were misadvised by the SENCO and you appreciate it was a mistake. I would also have a think about what your answer would be if they ask what your approach will be if the appeal fails - presumably you will go back to the LA and try to find her another local place. It may be that there are other schools locally that have spaces.

Your approach needs to show how the disadvantage to her of not attending is greater than the disadvantage to the school of taking another pupil. So you need to lay out the reasons why she would be disadvantaged by not attending this specific school - so ideally the letters should name the school as being the only one that can meet her needs, and you should explain clearly why the physical space of the building is also important to her by the sounds of it.

It will also depend on the strength of the schools case, which I assume you already have. A school that is only just at PAN in Year 7 and maybe a couple over in other years will often have a weaker case than one that is already over PAN in Year 7 and is cramming 32 students into classrooms designed for 30, etc.

When you go to appeal be honest and explain every little detail, if you don’t win appeal, appeal again. If all else fails see if a social worker can help

If your appeal fails, you can't appeal for the same school for the same year again, unless there is a significant and material change in circumstances. You could appeal again in a year's time for Year 8.

A social worker will have no influence over schools. Pushing for an EHCP would give more options - when was the previous application?

Did you appeal the refusal to issue? When was the EHCP refused? If it was within the last 2 months you can still appeal. If it was longer than that reapply as soon as you get to the 6 month mark (you can apply again sooner than that but as a needs assessment has been carried out you don’t have the right of appeal within 6 months so should wait until then).

Thanks @PatriciaHolm Thst really worries me that we already made a mistake!

If the appeal fails we stay on the waiting lists for both schools we originally applied for and hope that there is movement. I suppose I could home school her? There is A LOT of movement where we live and if you are sub 30 on a waitlist now, there is still a good chance of getting in. But that is no guarantee.

The letters all name School A as the school each practitioner believes would be the best outcome for her.

Where do I find info on PAN??

The EHCP was turned down in June 2021.

Thanks @LargeLegoHaul it was not given to me as an option? I didn’t realise you could appeal? The SENCO tried to go ahead and apply for one anyway but was told without the EP report it wouldn’t be allowed?

Your previous posts made it sound like you have actually applied for an EHCNA, the LA agreed to a needs assessment but then refused to issue. In which case when they refused the letter tells you how to appeal.

But your last post suggests you haven’t actually formally applied for an EHCNA? In which case you should apply now and appeal if refused. The majority of appeals are upheld.

You don’t need an EP report to apply for an EHCNA. You can apply for an EHCNA yourself, IPSEA have a model letter you can use.

Some LAs and schools incorrectly tell parents their child won’t get or doesn’t need an EHCP but the parents goes on to successfully apply themselves.

The schools own case, which you should have by now, should state their PAN and how many children they anticipate being on role in each year in September. If It doesn't, you can ask that tomorrow, though I expect the panel will too.

UPDATE
I think it went well! The panel were sympathetic and pleased that we attended to give our side of the story. It was formal, but not as scary as I feared it might be. The panel asked questions of us and of the school and LA representative.
Everything crossed now, result hopefully by the end of this week….

Damn I wish I'd seen this yesterday as we were in a similar situation several years ago. Dd with a similar set of diagnoses but we'd had good MN advice. We won the appeal. We subsequently got dd an EHCP that names the school anyway.
Look at the IPSEA website for advice on an application for an EHCNA which will trigger an Ed Psych assessment, hopefully while she's in whichever school she ends up in or at home if you don't get another offer. The LA have made you an offer so they've done what they're obliged to. Your current SENCO has advised you badly.

I'm glad it went well! Fingers crossed. My LA try to get letters out asap so hopefully yours will be quick.

UPDATE we won 🙌🏻

SOOOOOOOOOOOO relieved

That's great news!!!

Wow. Well done. What a great advocate for your daughter you are.

Congratulations OP I’m really pleased for you! It also gives me some hope when my DC is at that stage.
We’re also getting told there’s no point applying for an EHCP. DC masks beautifully is how the OT put it. School say the teacher isn’t struggling to deal with him so it’s not necessary. They don’t care how much he’s quietly struggling and not sleeping because of the anxiety school causes him.
Do you think you’ll ask for a needs assessment again now?