11+ score - what scores needed to get into competitive London schools?

[SamPoodle123]

Does anyone know from past results, what scores were needed to get into competitive London schools such as Godolphin or Latymer Upper? I know every year it changes depending on the results of the current year applying, but there must be some idea.

If your child got into a competitive school, do you know what scores were required for that year to make the cut off?

St Paul's is not impossible for the right fit (and they love a smart girl from a state school). You do realise there are fantastic state secondary schools in London? Check them out.

Also if you have an academic child at a private primary school, you should not need any additional tutoring for schools. If your child is in a state school in a large class with a mixed ability group and supply teaching, then yes, a bit of exam practice will help.

Don't apply to to St Paul's if you need extra tutoring from a private school.

One more thing to remember is the duration of Atom practice - I only bought the subscription for two months so we ended up around 120. But DS’ best friend practised on it for a year and he was getting 142 towards the end because a lot of the questions repeat. We were also told by the prep schools to mix different platforms and we used non-Atom platforms as well. So don’t worry too much about Atom scores as its only an indication and doesn’t necessarily mean you will get offers. Cat scores are a much better indication because you can’t really practise for that.

I agree. I'll be subscribing to Atom during the summer and Christmas. There's no substitute for learning the materials in depth so will be using a variety of platforms as well as copious reading.

True we only did Atom for a month and did practice papers in the summer, and general reading

iirc the format changed after summer anyway from paper

State primary here we didn’t know CAT score (not sure if it was available)

If you apply to St Paul's, they want a child who is naturally academic - yes, they can spot it - is engaged and not coached. They know exactly what they are looking for.

@Londonderry34 we are applying to a couple state schools as well. My dd school is a state primary, with mixed ability and is taught in a second language every other week, so this does make her need some additional help or tutoring to get up to speed to the British private schools. As half the time her lessons are taught in the second language, which means the English she gets is half of what other kids get. But that being said, she is scoring well in English on atom learning and we began tutoring last week, so we will try and hope for the best. She is keen and motivated.

We have only been using atom learning for two weeks and ill probably keep her doing it until she takes the exams, along with tutoring. But if she starts getting 142 on it, then we will start focusing on other materials like the books we have. I just like atom learning better because it is easier to do. She also began tutoring last week, which we will continue weekly as well.

@Londonderry34 I think my dd has a lot of potential, but like I said the sort of primary school she goes to, is not ideal in preparing for the 11+. In fact, I think it makes it more challenging for her, as she is taught in completely different language half the time. However, I am hoping the private schools will take this into account, that this is challenging and pretty amazing to be taught equally in two different languages, especially when her parents do not speak the second language. I am not sure St Pauls would be the right fit for her, I am not keen on it. But she really wants to try....so I said perhaps we will give it a chance depending how she is doing with the practice tests and tutoring etc.

I would just concentrate on exam practice if you want her to go to a private school. So read the question, timings etc. Seriously though if you have a good state secondary as an option, go for it. Scores are misleading. Don't get hung up on them.

@Londonderry34 the state primaries are not a sure thing either.... so we need to make sure we try all options. For example, we have one near us that is outstanding. But they offer 25% to top set, 50% middle and 25%bottom set of a banding test....and even with that not all get in, they use distance as well. We live in a spot, where we have a chance to get in, but it is basically just on the fence....also depends on what banding category she falls into and how many fall into same category and distance they live from school. Last year, a girl on our street got in....so there is a chance, but not a sure thing.

State primaries not a sure thing? What do you mean? If you meet the criteria, you should have a place. If full, you will have a place at another state school.

@SamPoodle123 your DD sounds very bright and would do well anywhere. Have you had a look round st Paul’s ? If not it’s worth going on an open day and asking the questions of cat scores. Also consider Putney high (if sporty) Wimbledon high, Godolphij and Latimer , LEH and ibstock place .
best bit of advice I can give you though is don’t get hung up on just results. Different schools also have different ethos and feel different so find the best fit . Also please remember schools test differently. Some do ISEB, some do GM and some
do their own thing altogether - make sure DD practises paper exams for verbal, non verbal , English and maths.

@Londonderry34 err no....they are over subscribed! For example to the one near us, 576 applicants last year for 120 spots. Priority given to siblings, 67 spots go to ones going to church...so after this that leaves not THAT many spots for the hundreds of applicants.....even when you live 10 mins walk to the school, as we do.

@Londonderry34 the state primaries that are a sure thing, are not good ones...

@Whatswrongwithmarjorie many thanks. Yes, we need to look at the schools, we have now started signing up to open days. Some are full, some not until Autumn. But, we are looking at two schools in June, so slowly, but surely we will view the schools. I just hope wherever she gets into, it will be the right fit for her. I want her to be happy. She is sporty and Putney high is on our list. I will check out LEH and Ibstock place.

From the Atom website last year.

@Utility many thanks for posting this. I can not quite read it, but I think I can just about make out that it looks like it might be a list of schools and scores? I will see if I can find the list. Otherwise, I might send you a private message to see if you could maybe email the list or something as when I open the screen shot here, I can not make out exactly what it says.

Atom has details of the scores that previous students got, who got places at particular schools. 115-122 will get you into some selective schools but not all. You still have a couple of months to improve the scores with practice, so your dc could be getting mid 120s, or even higher if they have only recently started preparing. My dd did Atom between April and August last year in preparation for 11+ and she started with scores around 120 and finished with scores in the 130s, and got a place at a super selective. Do the mock tests and see which stanine your dc is in: that will also help.

The booklet from Atom Learning has all the average CAT scores required for dozens and dozens of schools. That's your best source.

I’d just add that scores aren’t a guarantee. This year’s SW London private and grammars thread (which you should read, OP, and maybe the older ones as well) had at least one parent who was very surprised that her dd didn’t get a St Paul’s interview despite a very high CAT score. A previous year had another dd with a top CAT score not get in to (possibly?) Latymer despite lots of other offers, as she messed up the maths paper. One of my dd’s got waitlisted for an easier school and offered for a harder one.

Some schools write their own exams. Some use ISEB. Some use an exam designed for a consortium of schools. Some have NFER or CEM produce a bespoke test for their school. They all differ.

Each year schools will have a different ‘pass’ or ‘offer’ mark because the cohort will vary in size a bit and they always want to fill up. Some years you’d get in and others you wouldn’t.

Not everyone uses the same methods to prepare. Many don’t use ATOM and many kids have never done a CAT test. Many of the school entrance exams don’t equate to these. For example, many independent schools have a story writing exercise which doesn’t have an equivalent ATOM test.

The significant variation in the methods used by schools is really important to understand because you can be prepping for a skill that is required by one school and not others you are applying to. You could be really good at one those of skill and not at another. Consequently there isn’t a straightforward answer and especially if you’re applying to several schools which use different methods of testing, having certainty is very difficult. The idea that there is a particular test you can do in advance that will tell you if you’ll get in, is just far too simplistic.

Tutors who regularly prep for certain local schools often havea good idea when they assess a student. Things like ATOM can be used as general prep for many schools and work on general VR and NVR skills which can be useful or less so for some tests. Of course, if you’re using ATOM or have done CAT tests or other equivalent tests, the higher the score, the better the prospects.

Bear in mind, that even the very top schools have a ‘tail’ and not everyone is at the same level. Some schools have a longer tail than others and many parents would be surprised to know that even the top schools always have some students that they really don’t want returning for A Level, because they have struggled to get 8/9 at GCSE and sometimes 7 too. Not everyone is super super bright, even in the most selective schools. The tests and entrance processes are not an exact science.

@pkim123 what booklet are you referring to from atom learning? I have not seen this on the website. Problem is, my dd has not taken the CAT exam yet....I am going to ask her school about this.

@HighRopes oh I know it is not a guarantee. Nothing is guaranteed. I was just curious as to get an understanding of how high to aim for when applying to schools.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

This Atom book has all the required CAT scores for all the schools you can think of. It's a brilliant resource. See picture.

Confused.......she's in a state primary but they are not 'a sure thing' and are oversubscribed? But you already have a place in one? You move on to secondary after primary and there are lots of great - and not so great - private schools and lots and lots and lots of great state secondary - and not so great - state schools.