Moving schools Year 9 & CAT results meanings

[Whohashiddenthebiscuits]

Morning!

My DD (year 9) is currently being home schooled as she was extremely unhappy in her previous (Secondary Modern) school, developed severe anxiety and started school refusing so we took the decision to take her off roll in Feb and home school her until we got her into another school.

Part of the issue (from what she tells us) is that she never really wanted to go to this school in the first place and instead wanted to go to a local Grammar with her Primary best friends. DH is very left leaning and was very firmly against her taking the 11+ so she didn’t. The school she did go to was really the best of some ok & not great options! We are Kent based.

Given where we are at, we want her to feel a real buy in to school and DH has done a u-turn on grammars (helped by the fact the only 4 Secondary Moderns with places atm don’t look at all great!). She sat the CAT Level 4 F test this week. There has been a time lag as the March CAT test was postponed so she has had longer out of school than originally planned. We get the results this week.

We both have reservations about her joining the Grammar (not a Super Selective) if she does pass given she has missed much of Year 9 and her confidence is not what it was. There are pluses though - she is bright and her friends are there. We do have a back up option (the best of the 4 other schools with places) where she will need to do 2 trial days. In some ways the other school is actually a better option - it’s small and not particularly academic which given how much she has missed might be an initial (if not longer term) plus. However, unfortunately DD took a dislike to it when we toured it and we don’t want to be back in a position of school refusal. Whatever school she does get into, we would like to back this up with counselling and tutoring IF she will accept it (I organised private counselling for her in October, DD had 3 sessions after which she decided she didn’t want to continue and didn’t need it).

This has turned into a longer thread than planned but can anyone tell me what CAT 4 F results look like? I’ve done a Google and get different answers! If anyone knows what a grammar pass score on a CAT 4 in year test would be that would be really useful! I’d like to have this info in advance of results - I know when I got her SATS results I was initially crestfallen till it was explained what the format was and as it turned out she’d done really well!

I think with CAT tests they are standardised so 100 is the average score. 110 may be enough for an easier grammar school and 120 a safe score.
do you know what score she is likely to achieve?
what were her SAT scores on year 6?

Thanks @3WildOnes, that’s sort of what I’ve found on Google (although marginally different figures on Google, one saying 112 and the other 120 (in terms of above average and assumably grammar ‘worthy’!). It’s not clear either whether that’s an overall score or you get the scores for the different areas!

To be frank, we’re not counting on her passing it. She’s a smart (but not any kind of wunderkind) kid but definitely has strengths (English, History, Languages, Art) and is decidedly average in others (Maths and Sciences). She wouldn’t suit a Super Selective at all as a non all rounder and I imagine would fall in the middle of the class in an selective, potentially towards the bottom of the class for Maths and Sciences (and definitely in the short term will need some help on these two to catch up!). Out of the 120 SATS are measured in, she got 114 in both English segments, Greater Depth in Reading and 104 in Maths (just above average!). At her previous school she was top set out of 4 for English and set 2 (again out of 4) for Maths and Science.

Another Kent parent here with experience of grammars, a child with anxiety and previous school refusal.

We have always been told an average CAT score of 116 is indicative of suitability for grammar. (But each school's entry requirements/tests are likely to differ).

What is the Grammar like at supporting pupil wellbeing and mental health issues? Some grammar schools in Kent are really amazing at supporting wellbeing and mental health but others really seem to be really dire (more focused on results without a care for mental health) and I would not be sending my child with anxiety to one of those, no matter how much they wanted to go. Even at the better ones children put pressure on themselves/comparing themselves to peers -can your daughter cope with that?

Grammars tend to set less (my year 9 is only set for maths) which may seem more positive but how will your daughter cope comparing herself to higher attainers (who aren't in a seperate class)?

When does/did the school start GCSE syllabuses. Many grammars start at the beginning of Year 9, particularly in core subjects, even though they don't choose options until later on. How will your daughter cope with catching up in addition to the likely step up in pace/expectations of lessons.

I have every sympathy. With your child telling you they will go to school if it is a certain school then you want to believe it will happen and you probably have to give her that chance if you can but it won't be easy and she needs to be really clear that it is likely to be difficult, not only in terms of eork but also going to school with high attained and comparing herself to those children who haven't had the difficult time that she has.

What support did the old school give before she left? Has she seen an Ed psych? Was there talk of an EHCP? Knowing some Kent schools and KCC I suspect not, particularly as you have off rolled. If things don't go to plan at whichever new school your child ends up at, even if she can't attend, don't off-roll. When you do, the school and particularly KCC no longer have to support your child and find a solution that works for everyone so that she can get an education.

@peppaminttea thanks for a really sensible reply and I agree with many of the points you’ve raised.

in terms of DDs anxiety, this appears (and she didn’t talk much about it) to be people rather than work related. She had no friends in her class, there was some nastiness and with the friends she did have (all in another class) there was a lot of drama. One was perpetually talking about suicide and another is now identifying as a boy, both leant very heavily on DD for support in and out of school.

The school did try to help but honestly could have done more. They wouldn’t do an EHCP, offered a weekly lunchtime counselling slot and gave her a red card to exit herself from lessons if she felt she needed a breather. She refused the counselling. The phased return they gave us was very very short, too short. CAMHS have similarly offered counselling (again refused) and that’s it.

On the positive side, the weeks at home do seem to have brought her out of her shell a lot more. She is being more open and is afraid that wherever she goes she might sabotage herself. She seems three quarters of the way there to accepting that wherever she goes, it would be good to have some private counselling.

With both school options we have big concerns. We’ve been advised to let her choose the next school as her buy in is really crucial and quite clearly she has resentments around not being allowed to do the 11+. If she gets into the grammar, her closest friend who luckily goes there is an extremely kind & mature girl who I’m sure will be a rock. However, totally agree re the pace of work given her lack of confidence currently is definitely a concern, especially as she has missed so much. We have spelt it out to her that it’s likely she’ll feel very far behind in certain classes and it would be very good for her to have counselling so she can cope with that. We’ve also made it very clear that we absolutely don’t care if she is in the bottom of the class initially and she mustn’t judge herself if she is. We’ve also told her we will support her with tutoring if she feels she needs extra help and that there would be no shame in that.

I’m speaking to someone at KCC who will be making an Early Help referral this week for her with the view Early Help will work with whatever school she goes to so that the school can support her. We will definitely speak to Student Support in either school before she starts.

To the best of my knowledge, the grammar hasn’t started GCSE prep in Year 9. They will have selected their options last month though. It’s not a Super Selective and is a small school.

As above, the other non grammar option in many ways from our perspective would be a better option - very small and not particularly academic so she wouldn’t feel the same levels of pressure. Unfortunately though she didn’t like it when we viewed it and as much of this is about listening to her and supporting her with her choices, pushing her into another school she doesn’t want to go to is another red flag. DH was keener on this school than I was, DD is pretty shy, geeky and nerdy and the kids at this school behaviour wise didn’t look her type at all. It’s also a specialist College & it’s specialism (in which she would have to take a GCSE) is something she has no interest in. Quite honestly, my fear is we would be back to school refusing within weeks potentially.

in terms of other options, the reality is with the lack of school spaces the alternative is to move and sell a house we all love, move to another area and get DD to repeat Year 9.None of us including DD are keen on this. DD not keen to repeat the year and really doesn’t want to move house. We will of course do this if we have to as DD is the priority. There are some obvious benefits to DD if we do this - but potentially she might not like the schools with available places in the area we move to!

Altogether, whatever way you look at it, there are issues unfortunately. I really wish we could roll time forward and have some answers!

I teach science and every school I know of starts the GCSE course in year 9, simply because there's too much content to fit into two years. That said, a few pupils often join in year 10 and there's often only a little bit of work they haven't done before. With motivation or some tutoring it's not a barrier.

I've been through school refusal and anxiety with one of my DC and it really is awful. We were very lucky with the support with received from the school, which was a good job as CAMHS couldn't offer anything unless DC was harming or threatening suicide! For my DC, this was all triggered after the covid lockdowns and a longer phased return was needed, along with a 'quiet space' for break and lunchtime as everything was very overwhelming. Wasn't the only child who found that useful and my DC has graduated from needing it but the school has kept it to help others. Still has the occasional tricky morning, usually at the beginning of a term, however DC is always happy at the school once settled back in and I agree that allowing input into the choice is sensible in this situation.

Good luck.

Thank you @littlemisslozza and to you & your DC. Talking to others it’s really apparent how cases of school refusal and anxiety have really rocketed since lockdowns & yet the system (schools, CAMHS, the medical profession) haven’t really got their heads around how to support DC and parents through this minefield. Perhaps you & @peppaminttea have been through a similar pattern of doing rounds of asking for help and feeling you were getting absolutely nowhere. DD prior to this compared to her sisters was such a cookie cutter kid, I wouldn’t have foreseen this in a million years. I do wish I knew the best way to support her going forward now.

Anyway, my best wishes to anyone else & their DC reading through this and in a similar situation.