Secondary application for child that is overseas (but parents in UK)

[Throughtheforest2]

Hi
This is related to a thread I posted the other day but another point I wanted to check thoughts on.
we applied for a secondary school place for my DSC in the usual September 2021 secondary school process.
DH and I live in the UK, so applied to the catchment school. DSC lives in Korea but with intention to move over for September.
we made an application but we were not offered any school places (we were asked for a copy of DSC’s passport during the waiting period, but were then just told he hadn’t been offered a place).
We rearranged all our plans for him to come over as a result (finished final year of overseas school instead) which is why we’re now making an in-year application (as set out in other post)
but my question is whether we should have been offered a place. Looking at guidance on the government website it suggests that we should have, and the fact we own (and we in fact live) at our address means it should be used for assessing the catchment
so effectively we weren’t offered a place at our catchment school?
to then see the school claim that it offered all sept 2021 applicants from the catchment area a place in 2021 isn’t right, is it?!
government guidance suggests that it doesn’t even matter if the child isn’t in the country at the time of the application, the application in itself is a sign of intent.
anyone familiar with this process for children applying from overseas (but with the a parent applying locally in this case)?
thanks!

Our local council admissions policy (in England ) states that the address used for an application has to be the address the child is resident at at that time - you can make an application if the child is not living locally or in the catchment area but the child's new address won't be used until the child is living there and the council have received proof of change of address.

I know this because I moved 250 miles and had to follow the process to get my kids into a new school!

the only groups which have the right to apply from abroad before the DC is resident in the UK are military, diplomatic and qualifying OGD families; and they need written evidence (like a posting order or a letter from CO, head of mission or departmental representative conforming the time of the move).

You will need to reapply when the DC arrives in the country, unless they are currently overseas in a qualifying group - is that the case?

Is he in the country yet? Many LA won't process applications until the pupil is and can take up the place. If the school has space and no waiting list it is straightforward.

You need to use the address the child lived at at the time of application.
BUT, am I understanding this correctly, this was an application made in 2020 for Sept 2021 start?

Yes, this was for a sept 2021 start. So when we didn’t get a place we made different plans, as we could tell it was going to be an uphill struggle at the time.
your comments were in line with what we thought, so we didn’t push the issue.
but just reading this and made me wonder if we were hard done by: www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children

some of it reads like we should have been given a place? Regardless of if we are a forces, etc, family (which we’re not)

You mean the bit about establishing a home address, when distance is an application criteria?

It states that the LA can determine what constitutes adequate evidence, and on the face of it, it seems that your evidence was not compelling. Do you have proof at DSC will be living with you and not with the other parent (if whole family is moving?) Because at the moment you are clearly not the resident household, so can you show you will be?

You could appeal, but you need to find out what your LA considers adequate proof - the items on the list in the link are possible policies that LAs might adopt, not ones they must use

@prh47bridge @admission @PatriciaHolm - anything to add?

We couldn't apply until we were resident, we had already completed on the house, that wasn't sufficient

The key fact is that the child was not in the UK and therefore not resident at the address the parents were living at. The admission criteria has to explain how the distance is measured and this is always to a node point on the home in the UK. If the child is living abroad then there may well not be a node point. As such the LA could have said, you cannot apply until child is in the UK and I do not believe that any panel would consider that unreasonable given how difficult it is in terms of available places in some primary schools.
If you take it to the other extreme the LA could have accepted the application but applied an arbitrary distance of say 1000 miles as they could not be sure what the distance was. This would have meant that the LA was only able to allocate a place based on distance and this would be at the first school on distance that had available places when all other applications from the UK had been filled. That is highly unlikely to be at the preference school, especially when the school is saying they filled all the place from catchment pupils. Again no panel is likely to see this as being unfair or unreasonable.
The issue here is the mis-understanding of being in catchment. It is not the parents being in catchment it is the pupil living and sleeping in the catchment home.

In our area September 2021 entry means the child had to live at your address on 31 October 2020.

We lived overseas and timed our return for the start of year 6 so he'd be considered for y7 entry at the same time as other 11 year olds. I felt bad that he only went to his primary for a school year but the advantage of a guaranteed place in year 7 made it a necessary evil. (His school was a feeder primary for a good secondary and our address was in the Priority Admissions Area for another good secondary)

If we returned in summer between year 6 and year 7 then I'd expect the council to process his application in September and he'd be stuck with schools with spaces rather than the local one.

In most areas you would have only had an application processed once dsc returned. There is an exception for the military and embassy workers but I assume that doesn't apply.

The Admissions Code sets out the arrangements for Crown Servants, but others living abroad can also apply. It doesn't happen very often, so I wouldn't be surprised if most admission authorities are unfamiliar with the government guidance that applies in this situation. I suspect most appeal panels would also be unaware.

For an application made in the normal admissions round where the child is not currently living in the country, the LA should include the application in the normal co-ordinated process. They should not refuse an application from outside the UK on the grounds that the applicant does not currently live in the area. If the family is able to provide a permanent address, that should be used.

Note that the above uses the word "should" rather than "must". This is significant. If the relevant guidance (which can be found at the link you have posted) said "must", the requirements would be mandatory - LAs and admission authorities would have to comply. As it says "should", the LA is recommended to follow the guidance, but it is not compulsory.

You can certainly appeal and argue that the LA should have followed the guidance, in which case you would have got a place. However, an appeal panel may well conclude that, because the guidance is not mandatory, the LA has acted correctly.

Thanks so much everyone.
really interesting as weren’t aware of this additional guidance, not that it would have necessarily helped much. We were just given nothing / put very low down on a far away waiting list with no explanation.
just such a hard situation. We need a school place here to show the country he’s coming from that he’s allowed to leave the country in line with local authority requirements there.
But we can’t get him a place we’re happy with without him being here
it’s so tough and I really feel for my DH
not looking forward to the appeal hearing (DSC will be here and hoping we don’t have to send him back due to not having a suitable placement - his mum does not think the alternative is acceptable and I can’t blame her)
means he’ll never have the chance to properly live with his dad (other than the first year of his life when his dad raised him on his own, but he won’t remember that)
sorry, not relevant, just all a bit sad

Have you checked that no other schools which might be more acceptable than allocated now have a vacancy? Alternatively, if he has to have a place to leave the other country is private an option short term?

If your DSC is living here then your LA will HAVE to find a school place for them -you will be offered something when they are actually here.

For the main intakes at Reception, Junior & Transfer to Secondary the LA should only rank based on the address at the time of the application - which in your case was in Korea so a place would only be allocated at an undersubscribed school as distance will place the child at the bottom of the ranked list. I can't actually see that you have missed out on a place as your DSC wasn't living in catchment.

We’ve had some fantastic news!!
the school wrote to us today to offer DSC a place!
over the moon!! And won’t have to face the appeals panel anymore :)
thanks for all the help :)