Orchestra (French horn player) at WinColl vs Sevenoaks School

[Next11]

This is a separate post in addition to "Fencing at WinColl vs Sevenoaks School" as we thought that these are niche extras and parents with experience in one may not have experience in the other.

DS is a 11yo musician and keen to join a school (and municipality) orchestra(s). We are in the process of making a decision between the above two senior schools (age 13-18) and orchestra provisioning is another important consideration.

He is very musical, but more of a generalist (grade 4 piano, grade 3 horn) so likely middle set and we were wondering if anyone has personal experience at any of these schools.

1, How competitive is the entry to the school orchestra, or musical scholarship. Are there different sets for different levels so that anyone can play at some school orchestra?
2, How often does the school orchestra meet per week? Does it depend on the set, music scholarship, etc?
3, How many internal and external concerts in an academic year?
4, How supportive is the school to allow a musician to join the municipality orchestra (say once a week) as an extracurricular, assuming academics are fine.
5, Anything else worth considering?

Dear @Abuildingwith4wallsandtmrinsid you are reading my mind and soul. This is precisely at the heart of our dilema.

In our case we spent the first 10 years to discover his true interests, so DS already knows what he wants to pursue,

For him 6hrs of (non-fencing) compsory sport per week is a lot of time to take away from fencing and orchestra, so that ruled out a lot of the best schools for us.

Wrong thread, have asked for a deletion, as you were, sorry!

Sevenoaks isn't sporty in the same way as somewhere like Millfield (though there's lots going on, and they do pretty well for a coed), but they seem to be very good at supporting individual students to pursue sports outside of school. So it's never going to top the rugby tables, but you quite often get brilliant individuals in more niche sports, who compete nationally and internationally. It's very good musically as well, with lots of opportunities for orchestra, chamber, choir, jazz etc. I think another poster is right, you need to look more broadly at what ethos you're looking for from a school, rather than just looking at the fencing and music. .

Re the boarding, if you're now in the country, do you even need weekly boarding, or is that just a preference? For example, lots of Sevenoaks day kids live in South London. Could you look at day instead, perhaps with the option to convert to boarding if you're posted overseas again?

BTW OP I asked my DD and she says quite a few Sevenoaks School kids attend high profile London orchestras on Saturday plus apparently the school is weekly boarding, in that every boarder can leave after Games on Saturday afternoon, if they want to. Many don’t want to but some do. So I reckon Sevenoaks would still allow your son to fence on the weekends in London but do ask the school.

Yes, though I think most of the boarders do stay all weekend (as so many of them are international), and I think you'd still pay the full boarding fees even if you went home every weekend. They definitely do make arrangements for some students to do sport/music in London on Saturdays - as long as they can still keep up with the academic pace.

Yes, I am with you in all points. That is also a consideration.

Many thanks. Will do.

Just FYI don't know where you got your information about Tonbridge school but it is nothing like what you described. The house system really works well pastorally and every student is looked after and encouraged to reach their potential . Bullying can happen with any school, sometimes very subtlety.......

Ok thanks for the rebalancing. Fair enough, I must admit it is more of a hearsay, and I agree that subtle can sometimes be more damaging than open confrontation.

Another consideration was the 6hrs compulsory (school-selected) sports trade-off, which wasn’t ideal for us

Thank you @Abuildingwith4wallsandtmrinsid I am not musical so dont altogether understand the reference to singing in a cathedral - is that something that is normally aspired to? DD(11) is very academic and that is what has been swaying us towards Seveonaks as opposed to King's if essentially the music opportunities are the same at both. Although she does play other instruments (piano (G5), cello (G4) and has just taken up a third instrument which she seems to be a natural on and is already looking at grade exams in the first term), singing is very much her thing.

@yodaforpresident - I think the King’s most senior choir sing in the cathedral every week but please do check with the school at what grade and age your DD could join, if she wanted to, and whether the Sunday singing is then compulsory. It is just a really beautiful cathedral (have you been?), but not all kids will want to do that, every week.
The Winchester College Chapel Choir is a serious commitment and boys from Pilgrim’s start young and record and tour etc. and practise often. Huge commitment but fantastic singing. You would find examples on YouTube. Again, Winchester Cathedral is a very special place.

I think if your DD is very academic Sevenoaks School would be great and the music is certainly very strong, including the singing. I would speak to the Head of Music about the exact choirs/small groups on offer for your DD.

Just for comparison, I had a pupil get a music schol. at Win on horn, and he was grade 8 dist.

How long has ds been playing the horn so far? Does he have pieces he's thinking of playing?
By "absolute pitch" do you mean perfect pitch? If so, I would imagine playing the horn would be pretty mind blowing for him, especially when transposing. He'd be looking at a C, playing an E for example, and hearing an A!!

That’s impressive, gr8 on horn at the age of 11, or was that sixth form?

If it is the former, then music scholarship is pretty much a non-starter for us.

Which is very useful advise, as in that case I’ll not embarass myself (and by extension DS) in front of WinCol’s Head of Music.

Music is not his only (or even main) hobby, and a pleasantly paced natural progression will take him to say gr6 piano and gr5 horn by the time he’ll join. Not keen to push him, it’s most likely not a career choice, so we’d rather have him enjoy his musical journey.

We just want a school, where he would be able to play at the orchestra. In that case I’ll contact the schools with the main purpose of finding out whether he would be able to play in the school orchestra, at all!

NB Sevenoaks has a junior orchestra plus a symphony orchestra (plus various smaller ensembles). I'm not sure if there's an exact age/grade cut off, but I think the symphony orchestra is mainly aimed at Year 9 plus and Grade 5 or so plus.

Great guidance @bravepotatoes this is a very helpful pointer indeed. I imagine it also varies a bit on the actual year and instrument, etc. but a really good place to start. Does anyone else have similar insight into Winchester?

No idea about WC, but maybe try their website? Sevenoaks has a music page here with details of the main ensembles.
www.sevenoaksschool.org/music/orchestras/orchestras/

My WinCol pupil got his grade 8 horn early in year 8.
My ds was a music scholar at Radley, and he was kept really really (possibly too much) busy as a music scholar. He was grade 7 trombone by the way when he started there y9.
I think it sounds as though you should give the music schol a miss if you don't mind me saying so, just because the level of commitment as a scholar may be too much. As a pretty decent horn player, I am sure he would be welcomed into the school music groups. Save the pressure for the scholars!! 1 orchestra will want 4 or 5 horns, so he will def get into something! Good luck. Sounds like he's doing really well. Excellent choice of instrument

Fully agree, thanks for all the help 😅

@yodaforpresident - you could look at Wells Cathedral School for your daughter - although the overall academics aren't great they tend to have a small very high performing coterie who look at the Oxbridge music scholar route. They have a pre sixth form vocal programme that attracts a lot of ex choristers and a chapel choir (as well as the main cathedral choir) that sings in the cathedral regularly (it is the school chapel). It is unusually good for academic musicians as it is one of the 5 specialist music schools but is part of a "normal" school and therefore offers a wider range of academic subjects.

@Next11 if you want music and fencing then Millfield is the obvious choice as it has an excellent music department although I doubt that Grade 3 horn would be scholarship material given Millfield is one of the non specialist music schools that appears on Young Musician of the Year from time to time

Everyone here seems to think we‘re after music scholarship😀 Was just curious to see if it has any advantages, but I am glad that it attracts some friendly who-do-you-think scolding

Millfield is one of the non specialist music schools that appears on Young Musician of the Year from time to time

Ooh who do you mean?
I can think of one violinist but she was only at Millfield for a year or two and did all her music studies at RAM.

I can think of two violinists in recent years but there have been more over the length of the competition (old enough to remember). Very few non specialist schools have done better - I think from memory Alleyns and possibly Whitgift although I may be muddling some of the pupils from the latter up with Trinity boys as well.

Do you remember their names? Anna is the violinist I remember, just saw the other day she has a CD out. She did all her violin stuff at RAM though. I don't remember anyone else from Millfield. I don't think that many even enter from there.

My recollection from my son's first year, was that there was a specific 1st and 2nd year orchestra at Winchester (ie yr 9 and 10). And then the main school orchestra, as well as other types of ensembles giving more outlets for wind and brass instruments. I think they can do as much group music making as they want to / can fit in. There are even music groups for fulfilling community service requirements higher up the school.

I also know a boy with a music exhibition who has been able to do less music and more sport; a contrast with another of their friends who declined to apply for a music scholarship at the school he followed his older brother to having seen how much was demanded of music scholars.