Child's input into choosing secondary school, move at Y7/Y9

[Demelzaza]

Apologies for a slightly lengthy two-part post:
DD is in Y5, so we are about to start the fun and games that is applying for secondary school.
She was getting restless in our lovely but tiny village school and we moved her this year to a prep school, where she has thrived while keeping close friendships from her former one.
She's a bright girl, and our plan is to apply for the 11+ some way away, as well as the local state school,, and three or four selective private schools. They are all good schools in different ways, so in that respect, as well as having some choice thanks to a generous grandparent, we are very lucky,
We want her to feel her views are part of the selection process, but while all her friends and cousins seem to have definite reactions, whether positive or negative, to schools they have visited, she has generally been monosyllabic. She might comment that a school is big, or that she didn't like the uniform, but that's it. She doesn't say a word at the open days, won't join in any activities, hasn't commented positively on anything, and I think she finds the whole process quite stressful and overwhelming. She is quiet in class, though I think rather noisier with her friends, and at home she is a bright, bouncy, chatty and sociable girl with lots of interests - who however clams up whenever the topic comes up, even if it is to ask her if as a last resort she would prefer us to choose from any offers we get.
Another, and possibly even bigger question is when to move her. Most of the children in her school stay until the end of Year 8. The one thing she has expressed a view about is wanting to move at Y7 so that she can start along with the main cohort. I don't think she quite understands the large numbers of new entrants at Y9 into our local private schools. She has adapted brilliantly to her new school, but I imagine that her thoughts are related to starting when most of the children had been there for a while. It's a rural school, where they have long breaks and play lots of games and PE. Our original plan was moving at Y7 but I do wonder if it would suit her better to stay on, find her voice a bit more (currently I imagine she might do well in the selective school exams but the interviews might be a "I don't know" car crash), keep up with the sport and outside play she enjoys so much and generally, as in some ways she is quite young for her age, enjoy being a child a bit longer. DH is firmly in the Y7 camp.
Has anyone else experienced this or have any wise words? Thank you

We moved our DC from state primary to prep and are now looking for a yr9 school.
Moving her in year 5 and then moving again certainly sounds like alot of moving. She will only do 2 yrs at her prep? Maybe she is happy where she is and is not interested in the idea of moving again so quickly?
That said I do think girls can be quite cliquey and it's also a concern of mine whether joining in yr 9 as part of a small cohort is a good idea.. it's tricky.
We went to look around various schools and then the ones DH and I liked we took our daughter to so that she didn't get too overwhelmed. But she did comment on how large one school with 75 in a year felt.. the other we are considering has 200 in a year...

Practice interview skills with her, or find a tutor/coach to do so. Moving at Y7 in the main cohort is easier in most ways.

Choose some schools you like, give her a choice or not. Education is too important to be decided by a 10yo.

I explained in Y4 that he couldn't choose a school based on where his friends went. He took that on board. I also tutored him so he had a pick of grammar schools. Then I let him choose. I was glad he chose the faith school I wanted but equally I wouldn't have minded so much if hed chosen our nearby coed grammar even though I think it's a bit academic hothouse lacking pastoral support.

On the child input thing, I had one exactly like this. It's not just about schools - he generally hates having to give an opinion on anything. It was hard in some ways, but in another way, it makes your life easier - you're the one who should probably ultimately be making this decision, and this way you don't potentially have to do it against the wishes of a child who might be basing their decision on something quite random/trivial. Can you maybe ask her to tell you the things she likes most about each of the schools she visits (and any things she didn't like), without expressing any sort of preference? That might at least help you to gauge her feelings without putting any pressure on her.

On the Y7/9 thing, our situation is different as we were at state primary so didn't have the Y9 option, but I'll give you my experiences anyway in case it's helpful. For my DS, starting at Y7 (at a school with a Y7 and Y9 intake) was great. First, because his secondary is SO much better than his primary, so it quite simply means he gets to spend 7 years there rather than 5. It's a bit different if your DD is already in a great prep, but for him it's meant so many opportunities in sport, music, clubs etc. The academic level is so much higher than at primary, and he's absolutely flourished.

Perhaps more relevant to you, I think there are real advantages for a quieter child in starting earlier. The cohort at Y7 is much smaller (in our school), because the Y9s haven't started yet. That means it's a more gentle introduction, and the Y7 and 8 have quite a relaxed couple of years settling into the school before they hit the pressure of exams etc. Joining at Y9 is a bit more boom - in quite a short space of time, the new kids have to get to know the school, establish friendships and 'break into' friendship groups which are already established, and then choose their GCSE options about three months later. I guess it's a bit different if the school only has a Y9 intake, so everyone's in the same boat - but I don't know how many girls/coed Y9-only schools you'd find?

As for interview, I think that's about choosing your school carefully. If you pick a school that's looking for super confident school captain types, then that might not suit your DD regardless of her age. We went for a school that was the right fit for our quiet, geeky son, and the interview process reflected that - it was only a group discussion interview, which he coped fine with, without the pressure of a one to one, which he'd have hated. I'd be asking the schools you visit some quite probing questions about their entry process and what they're looking for.

Finally, I wonder whether your DD wanting to move at Y7 is her way of telling you something - either that her prep school isn't quite right for her, or perhaps just that she feels ready to move on?

As long as there is a significant intake at yr9 I wouldn’t be worried about moving then. E.g school takes extra form for yr9 , it is a defined entry point etc. depends how much you and she like the prep!

We are taking our ds’ opinion on schools but explained we are looking for the right fit for him and some great schools we really like might not be right for his particular needs. He won’t be going to a school his current friends will necessarily go to because the two main destinations from our prep are high pressured single sex schools which won’t suit him.

A move for just two years must be overwhelming and she is already staying she wants to stay where she is until year 9. You need to work out where you (not her) thinks she will genuinely flourish and then see how many go in year 9. If it's a good amount then there's your decision. If it's not many then you need to think about transferring in Year 7 after all. Some children are able to express clear preferences (with good reasons) at this age and some just aren't and need your help.

I would move in Yr7, there is lots of settling in that happens at 11. Just the thought of different routines, travel etc in Yr9 when you also have to start serious study for GCSEs.

Do all the schools have 6th form? If not she would be moving multiple times.

I am also not surprised that she is quiet on open days as she is still settling into her new school and looking at even more must be overwhelming. Does she need to attend them this year at all?

I really think that as she has expressed a wish to move for y7 then you should do everything you can to make that happen. Even if the move at y9 might workout ok, it's really helpful for her to have a sense of agency and being listened to.

There's probably too much choice at the moment and its too overwhelming to decide. As parents, you taken the responsibility for shortlisting a reasonable number to apply for and sit exams for. As and when you hold the offers, whittle it down to the 2 favourites and then she can focus on forming a preference between those final two - and then go with her choice. There's no such thing as a perfect school and whichever one she goes to will have downsides and you'll wonder if another school might have been better. That's unavoidable. It's likely that you will end up with at least 2 options that are perfectly decent, and helping her to make a big decision like this, weighing up pros and cons, is really important for her development. But keeping it simple by not making her form a firm opinion until you are down to the last 2 will make that process less overwhelming.

Just one other point on the Y7/9 thing. If you're applying for state grammar/other state schools as part of your process, then you need to prepare your DD for the possibility that she might be moving at Y7 - or she might not. I think you need to handle that quite carefully, as I've seen it work out not so well with a friend's son. The plan was for him to go to state grammar from his prep at Y7, but that didn't work out, as he narrowly failed the 11+, so he stayed on at prep until Y9. From then on, he felt like he was just passing time until he could move on. It wasn't that there weren't lots of others at his school doing the same - there were - but I think it was the fact that he thought he'd be leaving at Y7 and then didn't, that threw him. I'm not saying that having both options open can't work - I'd just take real care about positioning the Y7 applications if there's a chance (either through choice or through not passing the 11+) that she might stay on until Y9 after all.

Thank you all for such helpful and nuanced responses. We are indeed trying to give DD a sense of agency (eg about her wish to move in Y7 not Y9) without her feeling overwhelmed by choice. There are very good points about what she would need to get to grips with in Y9 even aside from her main concern of friendship groups, how to minimise the stress, and interview practice. Fortunately she's calmly on board with the "11+ or another school/ maybe another leaving year" thing. I shall be taking on board several of your thoughts, thanks again.

@bunfighters

I am also not surprised that she is quiet on open days as she is still settling into her new school and looking at even more must be overwhelming. Does she need to attend them this year at all?

Thanks @bunfighters - it's actually her who wants to leave at Y7 and us who are thinking she might benefit from staying a bit longer. Given we will be applying in a few months, we feel she does need to have a look at a few we have shortlisted.

Do any of them offer deferred 13+? So you take exam in y6 for a y9 place. We moved one y9, other y7. Most girls move y7, unless heading to boarding or only y9 entry schools, so does her prep have a good balance for y7 & 8?

Thanks Lizs - good point but she would be an outlier leaving at Y7. Most of the pupils go on to schools which offer boarding even if they don't board, while we prefer a day school.

If the only thing your DD has expressed any real preference on is moving at Y7 rather than Y9 then I would take that on board.

As she's only just moved school, I can see why she's not keen on moving again and wants to get it over and done with in Year 7. How many schools did you look round before picking her current one, she might just be overwhelmed at doing it all again especially with the 11+ on top as well. It probably seems like a constant round of looking at schools with the prospect of disruption for her, and she doesn't want to drag it out over another couple of years.

Thanks, @chiccroissant. For her recent move, we looked at two. "Getting it over with" is a perspective I hadn't considered, and as another poster said, if the timing of the move is the one thing she has expressed a view about, we should be listening carefully.

Maybe she wants to feel more settled and thinks she will have more longer term friends if she changes sooner rather than later.

LIZS, I think you are right, and we should be listening very carefully. Although every child/YP I have ever heard talk about this has said that apart from friends they have known all their lives, their lasting friendships formed around Y9. What's your experience?

That may be true. Ds friends are from when he joined at year 9 but some had been in the school longer. Dds friends are more of a mixture. But maybe your dd feels it will be easier to fit in if everyone is new. I always felt we were in catch up mode when ds joined his prep at year 3.

Those who joined at dd school in year 9 from her former prep tended to stick together rather than integrate, apart from the sporty ones.

Having had the experience of moving my DD into Year 9, whilst she is extremely happy now her integration in the early days was heart breaking. I would consider making any changes in Year 7 if you can.

I agree that moving at yr7 is the right move for most children. Making friends, choosing gcse subjects, getting to know a new environment, new teachers, new rules and processes is a lot to contend with in the first few months of yr9. In my experience many prep school kids feel they are just waiting to move on during year 7&8. I know of a number of prep schools that now finish at yr6. The prep school model is outdated as senior schools have their own entrance requirements and exams and common entrance exams are becoming obsolete. I also know of a couple of teachers that feel that children that have studied common entrance in yr7&8 have missed some of the foundation gcse work which becomes more apparent in yr10&11.

Sounds like you have an intelligent DD who trusts her parents through thick and thin. I wouldn’t worry too much, she will rebel eventually 😉