Conditional offer for independent school year 6

[newschoolnewlife]

Hello wise Mumsnetters,

Do you have any experience with conditional offers to independent schools at year 5 or 6? DD (year 5) had an assessment by independent selective school and was offered a place at year 6, but without an automatic admission to their senior school (year 7). She would have to take the school's 11+ assessment during year 6. This is because they found her only average for her age in some areas (and they are looking for children that are above average), but she she did very well at some of the other tests. So their feedback is that they are confident that she could catch up by the end of November; but she would need to be tested and there is no guaranteed admission to year 7.

Just slightly worried that we will move school (and area) and there is no guarantee that she will stay there; on the other hand, if we moved in September and she catches up, would this give her a better chance for the 11+ assessment of the school than if we stayed at the state school and take the same exam as an external student? I am aware that we would need to look for alternatives in case she fails the November exam.

Please share any similar experiences! Thank you.

Do the year 6 cohort all sit the exam? Ime it is usually well practised and a formality but there is a risk if she is expected to catch up in a few months. It also seems harsh to fill a year 6 place on that basis. Would you have a back up plan?

Thank you. As far as I know the students already in the school do not sit the exam. No back up plan at this stage, but there are other schools in the area we need to explore and apply in October to have an alternative.

I moved my DD for year 6 and the school guarantee her year 7 place - I wouldn’t have bothered if they didn’t as there is no benefit! Most through schools would only offer a place at this stage if they thought she would be ok to go all the way through (inc 11+). If she will have to sit the 11* anyway with all the other external candidates, why not just sit her at 11+ time and let her join in year 7. I personally wouldn’t take the risk and would ne wary of a school that wouldn’t guarantee a year 7 place when taking a child in year 6.
Is the 11+ just a formality? We had to sit it for year 7 streaming but that was it

Pointless unless you don’t get an automatic transfer IMO. You may as well just sit for Year 7 in November.

This sounds completely pointless. I wouldn't do it.

I just did the 11+ in SW London for the second time, and I don’t recognise much of this at all. Perhaps because it’s less intense at a state primary than a prep?

I did hear from dd that she had chatted to one child who sat 17 exams!?! I’m not sure if that’s actually true, though.

I would ask for further clarification. It would be strange to offer a child a Y6 place if there was a good chance they wouldn't be allowed to stay for Y7.

Find out if the Y6 children sit the exam. All the independent through schools I know, make their Y6 children sit an entrance exam as a formality. As such, a school might not give 100% guarantee that all children will pass through to the senior school. In reality, the risk of failing the exam is negligible, because any child unlikely to meet the academic criteria will have already left the school before Y6. In offering your child a place in Y6, I would assume the school is confident she will pass the exam.

Thank you all, very useful to have others insights and experiences. They said that they are confident she will do well, but she would have to sit the entrance exam. Good point about whether all year 6 girls also sit the exam- I will find out. Husband thinks she will stand a better chance once in. I am worried about changing school twice in 1 year.. difficult decision.

Sounds very unusual indeed. Very odd.
I would also not go for it. First few months should be for settling in,.not prepping for another exam.
Perhaps you could give a clue to the school and people familiar with it could.comment.

Well, it won’t do any good whatsoever for your dd’s self-esteem if you move her to this school and are then forced to move her again in short order when she fails a test her peers didn’t even have to take, because they were all considered more able than she is. Clearly being shown the door does happen, given this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4470030-My-D-has-been-denied-an-automatic-transition-from-junior-to-senior

Does the school manage out the girls who they don't think will thrive or who they don't want at the secondary school whilst they are in the junior school? That is common at some schools and so they are taking a risk with your DD joining in Yr6 as they won't have time to do that.

They want someone you to pay fees for a year that they would not otherwise receive, but potentially replace your daughter with someone who will make their results look better when demand for places is higher at Y7 entry.
No way would I put my child in that position.

I think it depends a bit.

The bits she's average on, is that because she's never been taught how to do them? Will they also be part of the entrance exam?

What percentage of girls come from prep and state in the Year 7 entrance exams? Do the Year 7 exams test more on skills or potential?

I know some girls who weren't offered places in Year 5/6 but did get places for Year 7, because the entrance exam was designed to test how 'naturally' clever they were, not whether they'd learned how to do long division (or whatever).

The school assumed that if they were clever enough, they'd be able to catch up easily at the beginning of Year 7.

Taking girls into the Junior school is a bit different because they'll only be adding 2-3 new girls so want them to slot into the class at the current level.

(Sorry, I keep hitting post by accident!)

So if it's a school like that, then I'd say you might be better just going for Year 7 entry, and keeping her where she is and let her have the fun of being one of the eldest, and presumably doing well. She'd probably get in in Year 7.

If you move her, she'd have to work harder to adjust to the new school, and work hard to catch up. She'd probably also get in in Year 7 though. Year 7 might be easier though if she has lots of friends and is working at the level the school expects it's Junior pupils to be at.

My son's school make everyone moving up sit the exam. It allows the school to plot what stage the current pupils are at, so that they can compare new pupils.
It's to ensure that new pupils are capable of keeping up with their peers.

Someone left/moved so they have a free place in y6. They want the income. They have told you they won’t guarantee a place for y7 when they will have a lot of choice of applicants so yes believe them.

I wouldn't. They've already given you fair warning they may not accept her as she's average in certain areas.

It feels like they are just looking to fill the space and collect the fees to be frank until they can replace her as part of the 11+ process. At this stage, they should be able to make a firm commitment. Even schools who manage students out tend to do so by Year 5.

Thank you all again. This is my fear, that the school is mainly thinking about filling a place and the income. I need to understand whether sitting the exam will be a formality or she would be competing with the external candidates. I agree that this will be very bad for her confidence.

In a way the school isn’t doing anything wrong as some people might really only need one year - if they’ve moved recently. Our neighbours have just arrived from Hong Kong and got their son into local private school for y5 in Jan. He will still need to apply for senior years.

Sounds like they are hedging their bets and filling an empty Y5 place now with the knowledge they will have lots of applications in Y6 and will choose the best candidates from the pool, exiting your daughter if she hasn’t settled well. I might go back to them and ask for a guaranteed spot depending if you think your daughter will do well there long term. Be aware that if they have a 6th form, they may be ruthless there too.

Tbh, I’m not sure I like the sound of them though.

I wouldn't let her join in year 6 unless there was a guarantee of her being able to stay in year 7 and beyond.
It would be very upsetting for her if she didn't get a year 7 place.
Why not leave it and let her sit for the year 7? In the meantime she could have a tutor to help her with the areas she needs to catch up in.

@Musicandcheese

I wouldn't let her join in year 6 unless there was a guarantee of her being able to stay in year 7 and beyond. It would be very upsetting for her if she didn't get a year 7 place. Why not leave it and let her sit for the year 7? In the meantime she could have a tutor to help her with the areas she needs to catch up in.

This ^^

Sadly I recognise this as a tactic from a couple of our local independent schools. where the majority of DC do transition from junior through to the senior school but not all. I have regularly heard of situations where a school has Y5/Y6 vacancies, so offer these out to families such as yourself, OP - but with no guarantee of a place at the senior school.

In quite a few cases the child has simply been asked to leave after the year.

They want your money OP. They want your annual fee payment but they don't want to risk giving a guaranteed senior school place to an 'average' child when many more who are above averages may come through at 11+. Hence why they say she will need to sit the exam.

I really, really wouldn't go for it if I were you. Wait and try for Y7 instead. And if she doesn't get in, at least you won't have gone through all the upheaval for nothing.

I would wonder why I was paying so much for a school that was only able to get good results by creaming off the very top students. What value would they actually add?